CFTC 主席 Selig：美國金融市場黃金時代與加密監理新局

0:00開場與嘉賓介紹

0:00大家早安，謝謝大家一大早就來參加。我們今天邀請到一位特別來賓，CFTC 主席 Mike Selig。Selig 主席在加入 CFTC 前，曾在 SEC 擔任 Atkins 主席的幕僚，也曾是 Wilkie 的合夥人。很高興他今天來到現場。我剛剛才知道他早在 2011 年就接觸到 Bitcoin，算是非常早期的玩家。能在這個時刻邀請到他，真的很幸運。我很喜歡聽他演講，因為他總是有新觀點。希望今天能聊聊他最近在忙些什麼。Well, good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us bright and early this morning. I think we have an extra special guest to kick off the day, Chairman Mike Selig with the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. Prior to being at the CFTC, he worked under Chair Atkins at the SEC, which we'll talk probably more about today, and was also a partner at Wilkie. So very excited to have him here. I just learned he actually learned about Bitcoin in 2011, which is pretty early on that scale. So certainly lucky to have him where we're at. I love hearing you speak because you're always saying new things, which is, like, really great. So hopefully we can go over the long list of things you've been up to lately.

0:52SEC/CFTC 聯合聲明與 Token 分類新框架

0:52我想先從你和SEC共同發布的那項有關於token taxonomy framework的公告開始談起。我想，從我個人的經驗來說，我在這個產業大概已經有七、八年的時間了，之前在Blockchain Association，現在則是在Solana Policy Institute。我認為，這段期間最大的爭議就是SEC和CFTC之間，關於什麼是證券、什麼是商品的這場拉鋸戰。請你多談一點這個framework的內容。我看到SOL token被明確寫成是一種商品，真的讓我非常興奮。但還是想請你談談這個framework，以及它是怎麼產生的。I want to start with the kind of announcement that you made jointly with the SEC as it relates to the token taxonomy framework, I think. From, you know, I've been in this industry for, I guess, seven or eight years now, running the Blockchain Association and now at Solana Policy Institute. And I think, I mean, the big battle was this sort of fight between the SEC and the CFTC over what was a security, what was a commodity. Tell us a little bit more about that framework. I mean, I was super excited to see that the SOL token is a commodity. In writing, but, you know, tell us about that and how that came about.

1:27過去太久以來，開發者都活在一個模糊不清的狀態，不知道什麼是證券、什麼是商品。當我要發行 token，到底要遵守哪些法規？要符合證券法、消費者保護法，還是其他什麼規定？這個環境真的很難搞懂。我們這次的新解釋，就是要一次把這些問題講清楚。For far too long, builders have lived in this state of what's what. What's a security? What's a commodity? When I want to go to market and sell a token, what are my obligations? Do I have to comply with the securities laws, state consumer protection laws, or what have you? And it's just been this really— Opaque and difficult to navigate environment. Our new interpretation is intended to bring some clarity to this once and for all.

1:53當你要推出一個新代幣進入市場時，兩個最重要的問題是：在證券法之下，當我發行或銷售這個代幣時，我有什麼義務？你是在進行某種類型的公開發行，還是屬於需要向SEC註冊、遵守揭露規定等等的銷售或發行？接著，這個代幣本身是什麼？這個代幣是一種證券嗎？它是股權工具、債務工具，還是其他什麼東西？這個解釋釐清了這些問題。When you're coming to market with a new token, the two big questions are: what are my obligations when I'm offering or selling that token under the securities laws? Are you engaging in a type of public offering or a type of sale or offering that's subject to registration with the SEC, disclosure requirements, and so on and so forth? And then what is the token itself? Is the token a type of security? Is it an equity instrument, a debt instrument, or something else? This interpretation clarifies.

2:24最終，雖然我們希望能將這一點明文寫入立法，但現在這兩個機構已經共同採納了一項解釋，聲明某些類型的加密資產，也就是數位商品、數位工具、數位收藏品以及穩定幣，並不是證券。Once and for all, although we're hoping to get it codified into legislation, but the two agencies jointly now have adopted an interpretation stating that certain types of crypto assets, namely digital commodities, digital tools, digital collectibles, and stablecoins are not securities.

2:41我們已經列舉了相當多不同的代幣範例。Solana 是其中之一，還有 Ether、Bitcoin 以及其他代幣，這些要嘛是一種商品，要嘛就是其他東西。它們只是可收藏的商品，或者說，是一種不受金融服務法律下任何監管處理的數位資產。那麼，當你要進入市場、銷售並提供這些產品時，你是否做出了某些承諾和保證？你是否聲稱你將會從事案例法所稱的「中央管理努力」，也就是你會為投資持有人產生利潤或收入？We've listed out quite a handful of different examples of tokens. Solana is one of them, as well as Ether and Bitcoin and other tokens, these are either a type of commodity or they're something else. They're just a collectible good or, you know, digital asset that is not subject to any sort of regulatory treatment under the financial services laws. And then when you're going to market and selling and offering these products, are you making certain promises and commitments? Are you representing that you're going to engage in what the case law refers to as central managerial efforts, where you're generating profits or revenue for the holder of the investment?

3:20而這些承諾其實正是構成證券交易的要素，當你承諾會付出努力，為投資持有人創造獲利時，就是如此。但這並不代表這個代幣本身就是證券。And those promises really are what form a securities transaction, when you're promising to engage in efforts to generate profits for the holder of the investment. But that doesn't make the token itself a security.

3:33因此，這項詮釋釐清了這條界線，也就是這些承諾何時開始，通常是在發行或銷售時，當一家公司或發行人代表公司或發行人本身做出承諾或保證，將會投入這些努力。而這些承諾何時結束，也就是說，如果公司表示我們將不再代表代幣持有人執行或投入努力，或是發行人表示我們已經完成我們的努力。這一點非常重要，因為這為市場帶來了很大的明確性。And so the interpretation clarifies that line when these promises begin, which is typically at the offering or the sale, when a company or an issuer is making commitments or promises on behalf of the company or the issuer to engage in those efforts. And then when those promises end, so to the extent that the company says we're no longer going to perform or engage in efforts on behalf of the holder of a token, or the issuer says that, you know, we've completed our efforts. And so that's really important. That gives a lot of clarity to the markets.

4:06因此，當人們在二級市場以及商品市場購買這些代幣時，他們有信心自己並不是在購買證券，也不會受到證券法的規範。And so when people are purchasing these tokens in the secondary markets and in the— Commodity markets, they have confidence that they're not buying a security and that they're not subject to the securities laws.

4:19SEC/CFTC 合作與監理協調

4:19是的，我認為這是我們在過去十八個月中看到的最重要的發展之一。我們可以為Crypto Rating Council致敬一下，它曾經是元老級的，但現在已經不再了。說到SEC，你和Atkins主席……這不僅適用於加密貨幣，也適用於非加密領域，你們談到了協調一致，並且簽署了一份諒解備忘錄。你可以談談這件事的重要性，以及為什麼這和以往的做法有這麼大的不同嗎？Yeah, I think it's one of the most significant developments we've seen in the past 18 months. We can pour one out for the Crypto Rating Council, which was the OG but no longer. Well, speaking of the SEC, you and Chair Atkins... And this applies to crypto and non-crypto, have talked about harmonization and have signed a memorandum of understanding. Can you talk about the significance of this and why this is such a departure from normal practice?

4:49很長一段時間以來，這兩個機構一直無法彼此合作，我們也看到兩者之間發生了所謂的權限爭奪戰——SEC試圖將某些東西，特別是在上一屆政府時期，定義為證券。而CFTC則要麼反對，要麼主張那是一種衍生性金融商品或商品。那樣的日子已經結束了。我們已經簽署了一份諒解備忘錄，這份備忘錄的設計目的，就是要促進我們法規的協調一致。For a very long time, the two agencies have not been able to cooperate with one another, and we've had these turf battles between the two where— The SEC is trying to characterize something, especially under the last administration, as a security. The CFTC is either, you know, fighting it, saying it's a type of derivative or commodity. Those days are over. We've entered into a memorandum of understanding that really, it's designed both to facilitate harmonization with our regulations.

5:18所以當我們要推出新的規則、解釋、指引和定義時，這兩個機構基本上應該要達成共識，否則我們就會採取兩種不同的立場，而市場就會變成這兩個機構的交火點，因為——如果你想要推出一個新產品上市，而其中一個機構告訴你你要受他們的管轄，另一個機構又說你必須遵守他們的規則和法規，這對於做生意來說不是一個好的環境，對我們的創業家和建設者來說也不是一個好的環境。So when we're going out with new rules and interpretations and guidance and definitions, The two agencies should generally agree on that because otherwise we're taking these two separate positions, and the market's the one that is, you know, at the crosshairs of the two agencies because— If you want to go to market with a new product and one agency is telling you you're subject to their domain, the other one's telling you you've got to go comply with their rules and regulations, that's not a good place to be doing business, and that's not a good environment for our entrepreneurs and our builders.

5:50所以我們要把那些過去的事情拋在腦後。我們要把對自己機構的個人忠誠心放在一邊，確保我們專注於對美國人民最有利的事情。而那就是明確性、協調一致、合作與協調。這份MOU真正象徵著各機構致力於共同合作。Atkins主席和我，當然，從最高層開始就非常致力於協調與合作。但這份MOU也將這一點在工作人員層級上明文化。我們必須確保兩個機構的工作人員——能夠放下對自己規則和法規的自豪感，願意坐下來一起合作。So we're putting that behind us. We're putting our kind of personal allegiance to our agencies behind us and just making sure we're focused on what's best for the American people. And that's clarity, that's harmonization, that's coordination and cooperation. And this MOU really signifies that the agencies are committed to working together. Chairman Atkins and I, of course, from the top are really committed to harmonizing and working together. But then this MOU codifies that at the staff level. We've got to make sure that the two agencies' staff— are putting aside their pride of authorship with respect to their rules and regulations and are willing to come to the table and work together.

6:24這也表示他們將會設立聯合會議，並在不同的規則上共同合作，但這同時也意味著監管資訊共享以及其他類型的聯合行動。因此，我們對於能夠建立這樣的機制感到非常興奮，我們也希望這個機制能夠持續多年，真正延續到這一屆政府之後。And so this means that they're going to set up joint meetings and work together on different rules, but it also means surveillance sharing and other types of joint endeavors. So we're really excited to have this in place, and we're hoping that this is here for many years to come and really survives this administration.

6:40預測市場的價值與監理挑戰

6:40我想要談談預測市場，因為你一直以來對這個主題非常積極發聲，我也想深入探討一些相關的監管和法律議題。但在這之前，你能不能先從比較高層次的角度，談談你對預測市場的看法？像是，你認為它們為什麼有價值？它們真的有價值嗎？以及它們在整個生態系中的角色是什麼。I want to get into prediction markets because that is something that you've been incredibly vocal on, and I want to get into some of the sort of regulatory and legal issues around that. But I think even before that, can you just talk at a high level as, you know, kind of your thoughts on prediction markets? Like, why are they valuable? Are they valuable? And sort of what their role is.

7:03預測市場並不是新鮮事物。我們在美國其實從九零年代就已經有了，而CFTC從那時起就開始監管這些市場。它們一開始比較偏向邊緣，主要是政治預測市場，而當時這個機構當然擁有相關權限並且也認可這一點，但它發給了一堆學術機構不採取行動函，因此——這些市場中最早的是ILA電子市場，他們獲得了這份不採取行動函，讓他們可以為學術和教育目的提供預測市場。不過這些市場後來被證明非常有趣，因為這些市場產生的預測以及由此產生的數據都非常有價值。Prediction markets aren't new. We've had them in the United States really since the '90s, and the CFTC has been regulating them since then. They started out more on the periphery with political prediction markets, and at the time the agency, of course, had authority and recognized that, but it gave no-action letters to a bunch of academic institutions so that— The first of these markets was the ILA electronic market, and they had this no-action letter that allowed them to offer a prediction market for academic and educational purposes. But they turned out to be really fascinating because the predictions that were generated and the kind of the data that was generated from these markets was very valuable.

7:41通常，當你有自身利益牽涉其中時，你就會擁有一個以市場為基礎的系統。想想看，這樣你實際上會得到比民調和某些新聞媒體更好的結果和成果。Oftentimes, when you have skin in the game, you have a market-based system. Go figure, you actually get a better result and outcome than the polling and some of the news media.

7:51因此，這些市場真的開始蓬勃發展。我們開始在天氣、石油與天然氣，以及其他類型的預測、地緣政治事件中看到它們的應用。而前一屆政府則非常有系統地試圖將這些市場關閉。不幸的是，他們並不希望這些市場存在於政治、體育或其他任何領域。接著出現了一連串的訴訟，最終CFTC在法庭上敗訴。法院認為，這種試圖以價值判斷來監管、對我們可以擁有什麼樣市場採取家長式管理的做法，是武斷且反覆無常的。And so these really took off. We started to see them in weather and in oil and gas and other types of predictions, geopolitical events. And the prior administration had a real concerted effort to shut them down. Unfortunately, they did not want these markets with respect to politics or sports or anything else. And there was a bunch of litigation that ensued, and ultimately the CFTC lost that litigation in court. And the courts found that these kind of attempts to merit regulate and be paternalistic about what sorts of markets we can have was arbitrary and capricious.

8:26我們的法規是這樣設計的，也就是說你可以針對無限多種東西進行衍生性商品交易。我的意思是，衍生性商品確實是一項很棒的金融工程創新，你幾乎可以針對任何東西創造出一種合成的金融工具。Our statute is set up in a way such that there is infinite number of things that you can trade derivatives on. I mean, derivatives really are a great financial engineering innovation that you can create a synthetic instrument on virtually anything.

9:01所以我們在幾年前與CFTC的訴訟之後，開始看到各種全新預測市場的潘朵拉盒子被打開，而我們也看到其中一些與鏈上世界結合，這對我來說特別有趣，因為我們在加密貨幣領域看到了一場有組織的去銀行化行動，也就是所謂的Operation Choke Point 2.0，所幸現在已經安息不再存在了。但我們同時也看到這種鏈上的現象，就是在我們去中心化市場中建立信任，信任網路本身，而不是依賴某個中心化的守門人。這確實減輕了被去銀行化或被排除在金融體系之外的風險。So we've started to see after this litigation with the CFTC years ago, this real Pandora's box of all sorts of new prediction markets, and we've seen some of that merge with the on-chain world, which was really interesting to me in particular, because what we saw with crypto was this concerted effort to de-bank, and we had Operation Choke Point 2.0, which fortunately is rest in peace no longer. But we've also had this, you know, on-chain phenomenon of trust in our decentralized markets, trust in kind of the network itself as opposed to a centralized gatekeeper. And that really relieves the risk of being debanked or of being kind of taken out of the financial system.

9:44我認為我們現在在新聞媒體和資訊系統上也看到了同樣的情況，中央化的守門人，不管是報紙、社群媒體業者，還是其他人，都能夠審查內容、排除特定人士，甚至改變新聞內容來操控大眾的認知。這有點像是反烏托邦小說《一九八四》裡的情節，如果新聞媒體一直告訴大家二加二等於五，久而久之人們就會相信這件事。但是，預測市場其實是一種去中心化信任的形式。有句話說，你是在信任市場，或者說市場就是事實的機器，而這一點已經被證明是真的。And I think we're seeing the same with our news media and our information systems where Centralized gatekeepers, whether it's, you know, the newspapers or, you know, social media operators or whoever, were able to censor and keep people out, change the news to kind of manipulate perceptions. And this is sort of a dystopian 1984 idea of, you know, if the news media is telling everyone that two plus two equals five, people start to believe it. But the prediction markets really are this form of decentralized trust. There's this, you know, saying that you're kind of trusting in the markets or that the markets are truth machines, and that's proven true.

10:24如果你回顧2024年的選舉，當時預測市場已經存在，這要歸功於這些不採取行動函件，同時也歸功於一些讓這些市場能在美國繼續運作的訴訟。而且，信不信由你，這些預測市場實際上比民調還要準確。我們看到總統獲得壓倒性的勝利，而許多民調，特別是在選舉前夕，卻顯示相反的結果。因此，我認為我們在美國保護這些市場真的非常重要。它們對我們的新聞媒體來說是一個非常重要的制衡力量。If you looked at the election in 2024, the prediction markets were around at this time, and thanks both to these no action letters, but also to some of the litigation that allowed these markets to go forward here in the U.S. And they were actually more accurate than the polls, believe it or not. We saw a landslide victory for the president, and a lot of the polling, especially leading up to the election, said otherwise. And so I think it's really important that we protect these markets here in the U.S. They're a real important check on our news media.

10:55預測市場的監理與州級訴訟

10:55我們何不來拆解一下這些不同的……相關政策議題，因為你們機構最近也有一些自己的公告。就在本週，我們看到國會提出了一項立法，試圖禁止這個領域中的某一特定部分。然後我也知道各州目前有很多訴訟正在進行。所以你能不能幫我們分析一下，並讓我們了解你認為你自己的角色，以及CFTC未來的角色是什麼？Why don't we break down the different... Policy issues related to these, because you've had some announcements yourself within the agency. Just this week, we saw legislation that Congress introduced that attempts to sort of prohibit one specific part of this world. And then I know we have a lot of litigation going on in the states. So can you kind of break it down and Let us give us some insight into what you think your role is and what the CFTC's role is going forward.

11:23《商品交易法》是我們的授權法規，建立了這個聯邦衍生性金融商品監管體系或框架。這是因為，正如我先前提到的，你幾乎可以針對任何東西發行衍生性商品，這包括農產品、金屬、加密貨幣，甚至還有像是政治結果和體育賽事這類事件。因此，這個框架非常重要。它讓我們的體系不會出現漏洞，並確保我們能夠全面監管這些市場。The Commodity Exchange Act, which is our authorizing statute, set up this federal regulatory scheme or framework for derivatives. And that's because, as I mentioned earlier, you can have a derivative on virtually anything, and that includes agricultural products, metals, crypto, but also events like— Political outcomes and sporting events. And so that framework is really important. It allows for us to not have gaps in our system and to make sure we're fully regulating these markets.

11:50現在，訴訟已經在州層級展開，我們有許多註冊人，也就是期貨交易所、衍生性商品交易所，他們都已經在我們這裡註冊，並且能夠提供我們法規所授權的各種衍生性商品。再強調一次，這幾乎涵蓋了所有產品，除了某些證券類商品會歸屬於SEC。各州目前正在對我們不同的註冊人提起訴訟，主張這些類型的合約屬於賭博行為。Litigation now has started up at the state level, where a number of our registrants, which are futures exchanges, derivatives exchanges, that are registered with us and are able to offer the wide range of derivatives that are authorized under our statute, which Again, it's virtually everything except for certain securities, which go to the SEC. The states have been suing different of our registrants, arguing that these types of contracts are gaming.

12:15這真的很有趣，因為如果你回顧到世紀之交，當時對穀物的賭注其實被視為一種國民消遣。因為所有這些市場，在那個時候被稱為「bucket shops」，都是為了讓人們能夠對未來的價格或不同商品、事件等進行預測或投機而設立的。最終，聯邦的架構是在CFTC之下建立起來，由我們來監管這一切，因為你不希望出現各州各自為政的拼湊式規範。你希望衍生性商品有一套統一的規則，就像我們希望加密貨幣也有一套統一的規則一樣，因為要逐州逐州地應對真的非常複雜。And it's really interesting because if you look to the turn of the century, betting on grain was actually considered a national pastime because All of these markets, they call them bucket shops at the time, were set up to allow for people to take future predictions or speculate on the future prices of different commodities or events and things like that. And the federal framework was ultimately set up under the CFTC, where we're overseeing all of that because you don't want this patchwork of different states. You want one rulebook for derivatives, just like We want one rulebook for crypto because it's very complicated to have to navigate state by state.

12:51因此，我們參與了其中一些訴訟。我們在內華達州的一起訴訟中提交了法庭之友意見書，並且我們正積極監控情勢，以確保在適當的情況下捍衛我們的管轄權。但令人擔憂的是，一些州正在侵犯CFTC的管轄權。如果一切都被視為遊戲、下注或賭博，我們其實就不會有期貨市場或衍生性商品市場，因為這些市場的設立，本來就是為了讓人們能針對未來價格或事件結果進行部位操作。And so we're involved in some of this litigation. We filed a friend of the court brief in one of the lawsuits in Nevada, and we're actively monitoring the situation to make sure that we are defending our jurisdiction where appropriate. But it is concerning that some of the states, you know, are encroaching on the CFTC's jurisdiction. And we really wouldn't have a futures market or derivatives market if everything was considered gaming or betting or gambling, because these markets, again, are set up to allow for people to take positions on the future price or the future outcome of an event.

13:35Perpetuals（永續合約）與美國市場創新

13:35我如果不問你關於 perps（永續合約）就太可惜了。這是加密圈很熱的話題，你們有什麼規劃？I would be remiss if we had a conversation and I didn't ask you about perps. This is obviously a hot topic within the crypto world. What are your plans there?

13:47這是另一種我們看到主要在海外發展的市場工具，這其實很可惜。所以永續合約市場大約是在2017、2018年左右開始的，很多加密貨幣的流動性因此流向海外，為了能夠參與這類型的交易。在美國這邊，我們其實從比特幣期貨合約開始，大約是在2018、2017年，這是一個很棒的發展。我們現在也看到了以太幣期貨合約以及其他掛牌的期貨。最近，我們也看到這些長天期的，我稱它們為非真正的永續合約，但它們其實是50年期的永續合約——嗯，我想我們不能稱它們為永續合約。它們是50年期的長天期期貨合約。This is another market device that we've seen develop primarily offshore, which is unfortunate. So the perps market started really around 2017, 2018, and a lot of the crypto liquidity went offshore to be able to, you know, engage in these types of transactions. Here in the U.S., we've had futures contracts on crypto actually starting with The Bitcoin futures contract, I think it was around 2018, 2017, and this was a great development. And we've now seen Ether futures contracts and other listed futures. And more recently, we've seen these long-dated, I call them non-true perpetuals, but they're perpetual contracts with a 50-year, I mean, I guess we can't call them perpetual. They're 50-year long-dated futures contracts.

14:33但能夠取得真正沒有到期日的永續期貨是非常重要的，我認為這也是我們已經說過正在努力推動的事情，而我們也很期待在不久的將來正式推出這項產品。我認為，這將會是我們讓加密貨幣市場重新回到美國本土所需要的其中一個關鍵要素。But getting true perpetual futures where there's not an end date is really important, and I think that's something that we've already said we're working on, but we're excited to roll that out in the real near future. And this will, I think, be one of the pieces that we need to get the crypto markets reshored back here in the United States.

14:54當然，在川普總統的領導下，我確實認為美國是全世界最適合創新、發展、參與市場的地方，而美國也的確是全球加密貨幣的首都。不過，作為全球加密貨幣的首都，我們需要有永續合約市場。所以我們正在努力把這個市場帶到這裡。我們目前正在處理幾個問題。第一個問題是，期貨合約其實是一個專有名詞。這和掉期（swaps）不同，掉期是另一種衍生性金融商品。而期貨合約通常被認為是未來交割的合約。Of course, under the leadership of President Trump, I do think the United States is the best place in the world to build and innovate, engage in the markets, and the U.S. truly is the crypto capital of the world. But the crypto capital of the world needs the perps market. So we're working on getting that here. There are a couple issues that we're working through. The first is that futures contracts is kind of a defined term of art. As opposed to swaps, which are another type of derivative. And futures contracts typically are considered contract for future delivery.

15:23因此，當沒有交付日期，且具有永久存在時，就會產生這到底在法律上是不是期貨合約的問題。我們的團隊正在努力釐清這一點，並找出正確的方式來界定這些合約。但重點是，我們會努力讓這些合約很快在美國推出。And so without a delivery date, when you have a perpetual existence, there's questions as to whether that's legally a futures contract or not. Our staff's working through navigating that and figuring out the right way to kind of characterize these contracts. But the bottom line is that we're going to work on getting these here in the U.S. very soon.

15:40自我託管與錢包監理新指引

15:40自我託管是加密圈很重要的價值。最近你們對 Phantom（自我託管錢包）發出 no-action letter，可以談談這個嗎？未來會有更多這類指引嗎？Self-custody is, I think, a hugely important feature and value within the crypto community. And recently, you issued a no-action letter, or the CFTC issued a no-action letter to Phantom, which is a self-custodial wallet. Can you talk about this, and are we going to see future no-action letters on other topics?

16:05這是另一個我認為美國真的受害的領域，因為我們一直沒有明確的規範。我們看到在上一屆政府時期，曾經試圖起訴從Uniswap到0x的所有人，主張這些非託管、在鏈上運作的軟體系統，或者是人們在自己裝置上運行的數位錢包軟體程式，這些到底算不算是某種類型的經紀人，或者是其他什麼身份，對吧？This is another area where I think the United States has really suffered because we've not been clear. We saw under the last administration attempts to sue everyone from Uniswap to 0x, arguing that these types of software systems that were non-custodial, operated on-chain, or were kind of digital wallet software programs people ran on their personal devices, where it's type of broker or other, you know, otherwise, right?

16:31因此，我們最近幾週發布的這項指引，也就是我們所提出的不採取行動立場，實際上就是試圖釐清這一點，並且訂立一個標準：如果你是一個數位錢包的營運商，你對你的使用者有某些義務，有些資訊揭露和規範你必須遵守，但我們不會將你視為中介機構。有些業者其實存在於一種類中介的軟體營運商領域，我們必須確保這類業者有一條不會過度造成負擔的合規路徑，不會對這些軟體營運商施加額外且其實沒有必要的要求。因此，這份指引的目的就是要協助釐清這一點。And so the guidance that we've put out, this no action position that we've put out a few weeks ago now, really attempts to clarify that and set a standard where if you're a digital wallet operator, there are certain obligations that you have to your Customers, certain disclosures and things that you need to comply with, but we're not going to treat that as an intermediary. Some of these exist in a quasi-intermediary software operator space, and we've got to make sure there's a path for that that's not overly burdensome and kind of imposing additional requirements on these software operators that really are unnecessary. So this guidance is intended to help clarify that.

17:13但當我們在觀察鏈上軟體系統和數位錢包時，我們其實是把它們視為一個光譜來看。所以有一些軟體營運者，其實只是單純地部署程式碼。他們沒有參與其中，他們沒有管理合約，也沒有監督使用者裝置上發生的活動。另一些則處於光譜的另一端，他們比較偏向託管性質，他們透過合約和管理權限，擁有某些權利，可以控制幕後發生的事情。因此，我們需要用不同的方式來對待這種情況，但這並不代表我們要把它們和中心化中介機構一樣對待，因為兩者的運作方式是不同的。But when we're looking at on-chain software systems and digital wallets, we really see that along a spectrum. So there's some of these software operators that are really just deploying code. They're not involved. They're not administering contracts. They're not overseeing the activities happening on the user's device. Others are kind of on the other end of the spectrum where they're More custodial, they have some rights through contracts and administrative rights that are allowing them to control what's happening behind the scenes. And so we need to treat that in a different way, but it doesn't mean that we want to treat it the same way as a centralized intermediary, where things are happening in a different way.

17:52他們正在與某些智慧合約合作並自動化流程。因此，我們當然正在評估這些產品之間的差異。有些東西處於中間，有些則位於光譜的兩端。因此，我們將制定適合特定用途的規則和法規，讓這類活動能夠在美國蓬勃發展。They're working with certain smart contracts and automating things. So we're certainly evaluating the differences between these products. Some things are in the middle, some things are at either end of the spectrum. So we're going to develop purpose-fit rules and regulations that allow for that activity to flourish here in the United States.

18:13立法進展與未來監理展望

18:13我認為看到像CFTC這樣的市場監管機構，以及你在那裡的領導，真的很棒。實際上運用你們所擁有的權限來制定行路規則，我覺得這非常了不起。在城市的另一頭，國會也非常非常忙碌，而且非常有熱情地致力於透過市場結構立法或CLARITY Act來賦予你們更多權限。你可以跟我們談談這個過程，以及如果這項法案最終通過，對你來說會有什麼意義嗎？I think it's wonderful to see a market regulatory agency like the CFTC and your leadership there. Actually using the authority you have to provide rules of the road, I think that's fantastic. Across town, we have Congress, and they are also very, very busy and very passionately working towards providing more authority to you via market structure legislation or the Clarity Act. Can you talk to us a little bit about that process and What that would mean for you if it gets across the finish line.

18:46感謝總統的領導，我們真的很興奮立法已經來到關鍵時刻。我知道過去幾天在CLARITY Act的收益問題上有幾個重大突破，我們真的很期待能夠讓這項法案順利通過。現在大家都全力以赴，希望能在接下來幾個月內完成這件事，並且讓法案送到總統桌上簽署。不過我認為這項立法對於讓我們在SEC和CFTC所建立的基礎能夠因應未來，是非常重要的。Well, thanks to the president's leadership, we're really excited to have legislation really at the cusp. I know that there have been several breakthroughs in the past couple of days around the yield issue with the Clarity Act, and we're really excited to get this thing across the line. And it's all hands on deck to try to make sure we get this done, hopefully in the next few months. And have it on the president's desk for signature. But the legislation, I think, is very important to future-proof what we're building at the SEC and at the CFTC.

19:16我們根據我們的法規擁有大量的監管權限，而我們已經開始釐清一些事情，比如我們剛剛討論過的，經紀商的問題、不同類型加密資產的分類、哪些類型的發行和銷售受到證券法規範、哪些則不受規範。這一切都很好，而且這確實是非常重要的工作，但立法可以幫助將這些成果固定下來。而我最大的擔憂是，三、四年後，下一個Gary Gensler上任，他可能會把我們所建立的一切全部推翻。我們不能讓這種事情發生。We have a lot of regulatory authority under our statutes, and we've started to clarify things like, as we just discussed, the broker issue, the taxonomy of different types of crypto assets, what sorts of offers and sales are subject to the securities laws, which are not. All of that is great, and it's really important work, but the legislation can help lock that in. And my biggest concern is that three or four years from now, we have the next Gary Gensler coming in, and he really just takes an axe to everything that we've built. We can't allow that to happen.

19:48所以擁有一部法規，你知道，其實它並不像法令那樣被鎖死，對吧？這有點像——鑽石恆久遠。法令是在華盛頓你能擁有的最接近長久不變的東西。因此，我們正非常努力地推動這件事定案。理想情況下，這應該要和我們在各機構所制定的內容高度一致。因此，我們一直遵循國會和總統的領導，確保我們所做的一切，從解釋到我們給經紀人的建議，都要和我們認為法案未來的發展方向保持一致。And so having a piece of statute, you know, it really doesn't get as locked in as a statute, right? It's kind of like— Diamonds are forever. Statues are the closest thing you have in Washington to something that's going to be long-lasting. And so we're working really hard to get that finalized. Ideally, it's something that's really consistent with what we're creating at the agencies. And so we've been following the lead of Congress and the President, making sure that everything we're doing. From the interpretation to our broker advisories, making sure that all of that's consistent with where we think the bill is going to head.

20:24創新顧問小組與未來展望

20:24看起來我們還有時間回答最後一個問題。好像每次你發表演講或上電視時，都會有一些新的消息要宣布。你今天有什麼要和我分享的嗎？Looks like we have time for one last question. It seems like every time you give a speech or go on TV, you have something new to announce. Do you have anything for me today?

20:36我今天確實有一個公告要發佈。所以，各位……可以檢查一下自己的 Twitter 帳號，確保我們能把這個消息上線。沒錯，我們正在啟動一個創新諮詢工作小組，這對我來說真的很特別，因為幾個月前我還在 SEC 的時候，有機會和 Hester Peirce 委員及她的團隊一起參與 SEC Crypto Task Force 的工作。我認為這些努力非常重要，因為它提供了一個空間。I do have an announcement for today. So, you know, everyone... Can check their Twitter accounts and make sure we get this online. No, we're launching an innovation advisory task force, and this is really something that's special to me because I got to work on the SEC Crypto Task Force with Commissioner Hester Peirce and her team back when I was at the SEC a handful of months ago. And I think that these efforts are really important because it provides a space.

21:01在這裡，你不會因為走進這棟大樓而收到Wells通知或傳票，你可以和工作人員互動，一起討論你的專案，以及你想要打造鏈上系統、預測市場或其他任何想法。因此，我們創立創新諮詢工作小組的理念，就是要打造一個讓創新者和建構者能夠進來，和工作人員對話的空間。這不僅僅是加密貨幣，還包括預測市場、加密貨幣和人工智慧。我們認為這三個領域都非常重要。我們當然看到很多人對加密貨幣有興趣，但對預測市場也有很大的關注，然後還有……Where you're not going to get a Wells notice or subpoena for coming into the building, and you're able to engage with staff and work through your project and your idea for creating an on-chain system or a prediction market or anything else. So the idea behind our Innovation Advisory Task Force is really to create a space where innovators and builders can come in and talk with the staff. It's not just crypto. It's going to be prediction markets, crypto, and AI. So we think these three verticals are really important. We're seeing a lot of interest in crypto, of course, but in prediction markets as well, and then.

21:35人工智慧，真的，我們現在看到這些具備自主性的金融應用和技術，實在是非常吸引人。它們已經徹底改變了我們看待市場的方式，以及進入我們市場的顧問類型。很多部分已經完全自動化。而這三項技術，其實我認為，彼此之間是協同運作的。所以我們現在看到代理人正在加密貨幣基礎設施上的預測市場進行交易，這也非常有趣，因為我們將會開始看到一些非常有趣的演算法和來自人工智慧在預測市場交易所產生的新數據。因此，這一切都非常令人著迷。AI, really, we look at these agentic finance applications and technologies, and they're really fascinating. They've completely transformed the way that we're looking at our markets and the types of advisors that are entering our markets. A lot of it's totally automated. And these three technologies actually, I think, all work synergistically. So we're seeing agents. Trading in prediction markets on crypto rails, and that's really interesting as well because we're going to start to see some really interesting algorithms and data outputs from AI trading in prediction markets and creating new data. So all this is really fascinating.

22:13這個專案小組背後的想法，是要創造一個論壇，讓大家可以和我們的工作人員會面，同時也能推動新政策，並與我們的創新諮詢委員會合作。這個委員會由來自傳統金融、加密貨幣、預測市場、人工智慧的多位領導企業執行長、頂尖學者以及產業團體組成。我們真的很期待看到這些不同領域的元素能夠攜手合作，制定出過去遲遲未能實現、但其實非常值得在美國落地的政策，讓創新者、建設者和創作者能夠在美國茁壯發展，並在這裡開發出新的技術。The idea behind this task force is to create that forum to come meet with the staff, but then also to push. New policies and working together with our innovation advisory committee, which is comprised of a number of the leading CEOs across traditional finance, crypto, prediction markets, AI, leading academics, and industry groups as well. So we're really excited to see all these different pieces work together to deliver policy that unfortunately is not. been delivered in the past, but really deserves to be here in the United States and allow for innovation, builders, and creators to flourish and develop new technologies right here in the U.S.

22:55我認為這真是太棒的消息了。我知道我們曾經去拜訪過SEC的加密貨幣專案小組，而現在CFTC也有一個類似的組織，聽起來它的任務範圍甚至更廣一些，我認為這對我們在這個領域工作的人來說，將會是個受歡迎且重大的機會。所以在這裡，我想我們就到此結束，但我想要特別感謝Seelig主席今天來到這裡，並且在台上帶來了新消息，也感謝您一直以來為這個產業提供一條前進的道路，讓它能夠蓬勃發展。真的非常感謝您。謝謝你邀請我來。Well, I think that's fantastic news. I know we've gone in to see the SEC's crypto task force and to have an equivalent, which sounds like a slightly broader mission at the CFTC, I think. will be welcome and a huge opportunity for those of us working in this space. So I think with that, we will wrap up, but I want to say thank you so much, Chairman Seelig, for being here today and for making news on stage, and appreciate all that you have done to provide a pathway forward for this industry to thrive. So thank you. Thank you for having me.