SEC 主席 Paul S. Atkins 闡述美國加密監理新時代（與前主席 Elad Roisman 對談）

0:00開場與歷史性的一週

0:00大家早安，非常感謝邀請我來參加今年的 Digital Asset Summit。我很高興能在這裡，尤其是在美國數位資產市場經歷了歷史性的一週之後。今天要談的內容很多，時間有限，所以我會盡量簡短，讓我們有更多時間和 Elad Roisman 進行深入討論。但首先，我想花幾分鐘說明 SEC 最近為加密資產市場帶來的重大明確性。Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for the invitation to join you all at this year's Digital Asset Summit. I'm delighted to be here, especially on the close heels of what was by any measure a historic week for America's digital asset markets. There is a lot of ground to cover and little time to spare, so I'll keep my remarks brief to allow maximum time for a discussion with Elad Roisman here in a few minutes. But first, let me take just a few moments to describe some of what the SEC has done in recent days to deliver long overdue clarity to our crypto asset markets.

0:46大家都知道，市場參與者長期以來一直處於一種不確定的狀態，尤其是關於一個根本性的問題：什麼時候加密資產會觸及聯邦證券法？上週，SEC 終於邁出關鍵一步，發布了代幣分類（token taxonomy）和 Howey 案的詮釋，明確劃定了監管的界線，說明我們對於機構管轄範圍的看法。As many of you all know firsthand, market participants have operated in a state of persistent, often crippling uncertainty around one fundamental question: when does a crypto asset implicate federal securities laws? Last week, the SEC took a decisive step toward answering that question. By publishing a token taxonomy and interpretation of Howey that draws clear lines in the sand and definitively states our view about the outer bounds of the agency's jurisdiction.

1:23SEC 新框架與監管界線

1:23我們這次的框架，明確界定了什麼是投資契約，並將數位資產分為五大類，其中有四類並非證券。我們也開始為創業者規劃一條合規之路，讓他們清楚什麼情況下募資會觸及聯邦證券法。這些行動讓 SEC 回歸本質任務，也就是保護參與證券交易的投資人。簡單來說，這確保我們不再是『什麼都管的證券委員會』。More particularly, our framework clarifies the contours of an investment contract and distinguishes between five categories of digital assets, four of which are not securities. We've also begun to chart a path of compliance for entrepreneurs who seek to understand when the fundraise for a crypto asset implicates the federal securities laws. Taken together, the SEC's actions return the SEC to its core mission and its statutory authority of protecting investors involved in securities transactions. In short, they help to ensure that we are no longer the Securities and Everything Commission.

2:14雖然這些措施具有轉型意義，但我要強調，這只是基礎而非終點。像這樣的里程碑容易讓人誤以為難題已經解決，但其實這只是開始。正如邱吉爾所說，這不是結束，也不是結束的開始，而是開始的結束。因為我們帶來的明確性雖然重要，但還遠遠不夠。畢竟，只有國會才能透過全面的市場結構立法，讓監管真正與時俱進。Now, as transformative as I expect these steps to be, I should also like to make clear that our interpretation is not an endpoint as much as a foundation. Milestones like this one can tempt us to think that we have tackled the hard questions, but that would mistake progress for resolution. In light of last week's interpretation, I'm reminded of the Churchillian refrain that this is not the end, it is not even the beginning of the end, but it is perhaps the end of the beginning. Because while the clarity that we have delivered is essential, it's scarcely sufficient. After all, only Congress can future-proof regulation in this space through comprehensive market structure legislation.

3:01SEC 與 CFTC 的合作與新詮釋

3:01當立法者考慮更廣泛的改革以防範不當監管時，SEC 正在做它能做且應該做的事情，也就是在現有法律下，釐清我們管轄權的正確界線，正如邱吉爾所說，加速結束這個開端。接下來的工作值得比我開場評論更多的討論。因此，我想進入與 Elad Roisman 的對談，讓我們能更深入地討論這些議題。所以，Elad，我很期待一場有深度的交流，也再次感謝大家給我這個參與今年高峰會的榮幸。And as lawmakers consider broader reform to guard against rogue regulation, the SEC is doing exactly what it can and should be doing by providing clarity about the proper boundaries of our jurisdiction within existing law, by hastening the end of the beginning, as Churchill would say. Now, the work ahead merits a fuller discussion than my opening comments allow. So I want to move to my conversation with Elad Roisman so that we can discuss these issues in greater depth. So, Elad, I look forward to a thoughtful exchange, and thank you all once again for the privilege of participating in this year's summit.

3:57（主持人）謝謝您的時間，主席先生。我想我可以代表在場所有人說，委員會一直以來所做的工作，絕對是極為重要且具有里程碑意義的。我想我們都可以同意，您的任期和前一任相比，尤其是在數位資產方面，有著明顯的差異。而我認為您剛才的發言，就是一個很好的例子，展現了我們所認為的集體努力，目的是為產業帶來明確性。長久以來，大家都覺得自己像是在敲門，尋求這樣的明確性，而通常得到的回應都是：「今天不行。」或者「明天再說。」(Moderator) Thank you for your time, Mr. Chairman. And I think I speak for everyone that the work that the Commission has been doing has been nothing short of monumental. I think there is, we can all agree that there is a stark difference between, let's say, your tenureship and the previous one, especially when it comes to digital assets. And I think your statement just now is a good example of what I think is a collective approach to provide clarity to the industry. For a long time, folks have felt that they were knocking on the door asking for this, and the response usually was, Not today. Or tomorrow.

4:41正如你所提到的，在超過十年的不確定性之後，委員會上週宣布了一項首創的解釋，為市場參與者和創新者提供一個明確的理解，說明SEC如何根據聯邦證券法來看待加密資產。Well, as you mentioned, after more than a decade of uncertainty, the Commission announced last week a first-of-its-kind interpretation to provide market participants and innovators with a clear understanding of how the SEC views crypto assets under the federal securities laws.

4:58我也要特別提到，CFTC 也共同簽署了這份詮釋，這是兩個監管機關攜手合作、讓創新者能選擇美國作為事業基地的好例子。請主席跟大家多說一點這份詮釋的內容，以及它如何幫助加密創業者和傳統金融機構？I should also note that the CFTC also signed on to the interpretation, which is another great example of two regulators working together to provide clarity and the ability for innovators to seek America as the place for their businesses. Can you tell the audience a little bit more about the interpretation and how it will help market participants, both sort of crypto entrepreneurs and, I would say, the traditional financial institutions?

5:24代幣分類與監管分工

5:24謝謝你。是的，我認為這確實是我們處理事情方式上的一個重大轉變。我也要說，我真的很高興川普總統任命Mike Selig成為CFTC主席。這是一個無與倫比的時刻，因為Mike以前就在我的辦公室工作，而且他是被Hester Peirce，也就是Crypto Mama，招募去擔任Crypto Task Force的首席法律顧問。他非常努力工作，對這個產業很了解，也非常熟悉數位資產。(Atkins) Well, thank you. So, yeah, this was, I think, a real sea change in how we have approached things. So, and I should say, I'm really thrilled that President Trump appointed Mike Selig to be chairman of the CFTC. So this is an incomparable moment in time where Mike used to be my office, and he was recruited by Hester Peirce, Crypto Mama, to be the chief counsel of the Crypto Task Force. So he's a hard worker. He knows the business and knows digital assets very well.

5:58所以能夠讓他成為我們姊妹機構的同事，這真的打破了過去的作法，因此，你知道，我們真的會密切合作，而我們也下定決心要在接下來的幾年內把這件事做好。So to have him as a colleague at our sister agency really breaks with the past so that, you know, we will really be working hand in glove and we're determined to get this right here in the coming years.

6:12所以我們提出的這個詮釋，其實就是專注於劃出一條明確的界線，這樣我們至少可以說哪些東西屬於CFTC，哪些東西屬於SEC，這在過去幾年顯然一直是個問題。所以我常常把這種情況比喻成兩座堡壘，你有SEC，也有CFTC，中間有一片無人地帶，然後那些潛在的新產品就像是冒險進入無人地帶，但最後卻在兩座堡壘的交火中被擊倒。這很可惜，而且在那片無人地帶裡，遺留下很多“屍體”，很遺憾。不過我認為，隨著時間過去，我們還是有機會讓其中一些復活。So this interpretation that we came out with, you know, is really focused on drawing a clear line in the sand so that, you know, we can at least say what belongs with the CFTC and what belongs with the SEC, which has been a bit problematic, obviously, over the last few years. So I often compare it to two fortresses. You know, you have SEC, CFTC. You have a no man's land in the middle, and so the would-be new products kind of venture out into the no man's land, but then get cut down in the crossfire from the fortresses. So that's sad, and there are a lot of carcasses laying in that no man's land, unfortunately. But we'll be able to revive some of them, I think, as time goes on.

6:58我們明確列出四種不是證券的代幣類型：數位商品、數位收藏品（像 NFT 或 meme coin）、數位工具（例如生態系統內的存取權或身份）、以及根據 GENIUS Act 的支付型穩定幣。這四類都歸 CFTC 管，未來有新東西也可以直接轉給他們處理。如果這套機制早點有，很多問題早就解決了。But so basically looking at—Four types of things that are not securities, four types of tokens. So digital commodities, digital collectibles, it means like art or NFTs or meme coins, digital tools, which are access rights or identity to work within an ecosystem. And then finally, payment stablecoins under the Genius Act that Congress enacted. So those four are not securities, and those will be with the CFTC. And, you know, anything that comes up, we can refer to them to deal with that. And had that existed in the past, I think a lot of questions would have been much more easily answered.

7:43所以那些屬於證券的東西，其實是被代幣化的傳統證券。也就是說，股權和債券以鏈上代幣化的形式呈現。因此，我們現在所做的明確分析和澄清，就是要將這些東西從投資契約中分離出來，並且真正去定義什麼是投資契約。還有，將代幣本身和實際契約做出區分。這個代幣是依賴於透過那個投資契約所創造出來的東西，也就是對投資人所做出的承諾。而這個代幣，就像Howey先生的橘子一樣，並不是證券，證券其實是那份契約本身。So the things that are securities, though, are tokenized traditional securities. So equity and debt represented on-chain in tokenized form. And so the clear, you know, analysis, the clear clarifications that we're trying to do is to take things away from investment contracts and how to really define that. And the separation of the token from the actual contract. The token is relying on what's created through that investment contract, the promises that are made to investors. And the token, like Mr. Howey's orange, is not the security, but it's the contract itself.

8:31詮釋的意義與未來規劃

8:31（主持人）是的，我想可以很有把握地說，我相信在座的許多觀眾至少都讀過那份解釋一次。而且我確實認為，關於「關鍵管理努力」以及這些努力必須是「關鍵」這一點的討論特別有幫助。所以我認為，工作人員和委員會在闡述前提和思考過程方面做得非常好，我認為這對於那些想要在正確範圍內創新的創業者來說非常有幫助。當然，當你做出像這樣具有重大意義的解釋時，每個人心中的問題都是：「好，這樣就結束了嗎？」(Moderator) Yeah, I think it's safe to say I imagine a large swath of this audience has read that interpretation at least once. And I do think it's especially helpful, the discussions especially about the essential managerial efforts and the fact that they have to be essential. So I do think the staff and the commission did a very good job of laying out the premise and the thinking, and I think that's very helpful for innovators who are trying to sort of play within the right lanes. Obviously, when you do something as monumental, I'd say, as an interpretation, the question everyone has is, okay, is that it?

9:12不，這就像我剛才說的，正如邱吉爾所說，我們正處於開始階段，而這可能只是開始的結束。但無論如何，我們還有很長的路要走。而這份解釋性公告並不是萬靈丹。它其實只是劃定了一個界線，接下來我們會著手制定更廣泛的框架。所以，你知道，我們已經完成了分類法和解釋。但我們還沒有處理豁免和安全港，還有針對個別情況的專屬指引，因為我們不可能一開始就面面俱到。一定還會有問題，因為這就是創新的運作方式。它是非常反覆修正的。(Atkins) No, this is just like I said, as Churchill said, we're at the beginning, and this could be the end of the beginning. But anyway, we have a long way to go. And the interpretative release is not a panacea. It's just really kind of setting out a boundary here, and then we will work on a broader framework. So, you know, we've done the taxonomy and interpretation. But we have yet to go exemptions and safe harbors, you know, and then bespoke guidance for people, because inevitably we'll not get everything at the beginning. There will always be questions, because that's the way innovation works. It's very iterative.

9:53所以我們需要做好準備，願意並且有能力，並且與CFTC密切合作，為市場提供指引。你知道，就是在不過度擴權的情況下提供明確性，然後讓創新能夠在我們所劃定的界線內持續發展。So we need to be ready, willing, and able, and working closely with the CFTC to provide that guidance to the marketplace. You know, to provide clarity without overreaching, and then to enable innovation to proceed within the defined boundaries that we'll create.

10:11Reg Crypto Asset 與創新豁免

10:11（主持人）那麼，談到這個，你知道，你上週也發表了一場演講，在那場演講中你提到了對加密資產的監管。這是一個安全港，能夠為加密創新者在美國籌集資金提供途徑，同時考慮到加密資產的特性，並提供必要的投資人保護。我昨天注意到，在OIRA網站上其實有一則關於新潛在規則的公告，我認為那個規則的標題可能也很類似。你可以多跟我們分享一下這種加密資產監管背後的想法嗎？(Moderator) Well, touching upon that, you know, you gave a speech also last week where you called regulation crypto asset. Which is a safe harbor that would provide crypto innovators with pathways to raise capital in the United States, taking into account the characteristics of crypto assets while providing requisite investor protections. I noticed yesterday that there was actually a notice on the OIRA website of a new potential rule, which I think may have a similar title. Could you give us a little bit more about the idea behind this sort of regulation in crypto asset?

10:51這會是——SEC主要處理的有兩個重要法規：1933年的《證券法》，這主要是關於首次公開募股（IPO）以及透過證券市場籌集資金。然後是1934年的《證券交易法》，這則是處理像是已註冊證券的二級市場交易、這些證券應該在哪裡交易、在交易所上如何交易，以及這些交易所應該如何被監管等等。所以這一切很快就會變得非常複雜。因此，我們現在要做的，就是針對我們對這些特定法規的詮釋以及我們與這些法規的互動方式，進行更新，以符合21世紀的需求。(Atkins) Well, this will be—there are two main statutes that the SEC deals with: the Securities Act of 1933, which is all about really doing IPOs and raising capital through the securities markets. And then the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, which deals with, you know, how secondary trades go about, you know, with respect to registered securities and where they should be traded and on exchanges and how those exchanges are to be regulated and all that. So that all gets very complicated. Quickly. So what we're trying to do is update these particular statutes as far as our interpretation and our interaction with them goes for the 21st century.

11:38所以，關於這個加密資產的監管，這主要是聚焦在募資，以及你知道的，像是證券的本質面向……這正是我們所關注的重點，但我們希望能夠明確訂定進入和退出的標準。因此，從這個角度來看，這項提案會討論到豁免條款，也就是說，除了證券法的豁免之外，還會有安全港條款，這些都會納入這個特定的提案中。So with respect to this reg crypto assets, that's focusing on fundraising and, you know, how the, like, the essential aspect of what securities... We're all about, but we want to set out clear entry and clear exit parameters from that. And so, looking at, you know, well, this proposal will talk about exemptions, you know, from that Securities Act plus safe harbors that are now, that's going to be in this particular proposal.

12:15所以，關於結構方面，你知道，可以考慮設立一個新創公司豁免條款、一個募資豁免條款，然後還有一個投資契約安全港條款，目標是要為大家提供量身打造的資本形成途徑，讓人們能夠使用、利用我們在分散式帳本技術（DLT）方面擁有的巨大創新。然後，要在創新和投資人保護之間取得平衡。So, with respect to structure, you know, be looking at a startup exemption, a fundraising exemption, and then an investment contract safe harbors, with the goal of trying to have bespoke capital formation pathways for people to use, utilize, you know, the huge innovation that we have with DLT technology. And then to balance innovation with investor protection.

12:42（主持人）對於在場想要多了解一點的觀眾來說，主席上週發表了一場關於加密資產監管的演講。我認為這非常了不起，因為這是第一次從《33年法案》的角度來討論數位資產和代幣。而且聽起來，如果Avira網站上所說的就是我們現在討論的內容，那麼我們應該不用等太久，它就會發布了。所以我想大家都很興奮，我相信你也會鼓勵大家發表意見並參與討論。(Moderator) For those in the audience who probably want to learn a little bit more, there's a speech that the chairman gave last week about regulation crypto asset. And I think it is incredible because it is the first sort of discussion, I think, from a 33 Act perspective with respect to digital assets and tokens. And it sounds like if what's on Avira's website is what we're talking about, we won't have to wait too, too long before, you know, it's out. So I think folks are excited, and I'm sure you'd encourage them to comment and come in.

13:17是的，這就是——所以這是我們在這裡要做的第一步，就是公布這個。這是一項擬議規則。所以會有六十天的意見徵詢期，因此我們真的很期待公眾對這件事的意見，因為我們希望把事情做對，我們也希望確保這個規則是可用的，而且對大家是有幫助的。(Atkins) Yeah, that's what— so this is the first step here to publish this. It's a proposed rule. So there'll be a 60-day period for comment, and so really looking forward to the public's comments on this because we want to get it right, and we want to make sure that it will be usable and, you know, helpful for people.

13:41創新豁免與市場演進

13:41（主持人）所以在這個主題下，我們已經討論過分類法，也討論過資本募集。有一件事已經被討論了一段時間，我認為這對大家來說，總是可以說是另一面的議題，那就是創新豁免。我想可以很安全地說，這個房間裡的許多人，以及正在收聽的人，都一直在熱切期待這個創新豁免。我記得你過去也談過這個主題，這個創新豁免將允許在鏈上進行代幣化證券的交易。(Moderator) So in this theme, we've talked about taxonomy, we've talked about capital raising. There's one thing that has been talked about for a while, which I think is, I would always say, the other side of the coin for folks. It's the innovation exemption. So I think it's safe to say many people in this room, and I think listening in, have been eagerly awaiting this innovation exemption, which I think you've talked about in the past, allowing for sort of trading of tokenized securities on-chain.

14:13這將有助於解決目前存在的一些不相容，或者說是繁瑣的規範性監管要求，因為坦白說，這些規則在當初制定時，並沒有像大家所期望的那樣，充分考慮到數位資產。你能幫忙嗎？他們確實有考慮。你說得對。但我的意思是，創新一直都存在。It would help address some of the incompatible, I would say, or burdensome prescriptive regulatory requirements that, you know, exist today because, frankly, the rules didn't contemplate the digital assets as much as, you know, people were hoping back when they wrote it. Can you help? They did. You're right. But I mean, innovation has always been here.

14:58（Atkins）其實最主要的是，我們真的在努力讓市場發揮市場的功能，讓創新者能夠創新。過去幾年比較令人遺憾的是，SEC歷來或許並不是在推動創新、帶頭加油打氣這方面的先鋒，但它也並沒有真的阻礙事情的發展，也沒有站在創新的對立面。所以回顧過去，這可能讓人難以置信，當你談到那些起草1933年和1934年法案的人當時的想法，他們其實是在一個紙本的世界裡。那時候你有紙本的股票憑證等等，所以整個流程其實非常繁瑣。(Atkins) Well, the main thing is we're really trying to let the market be the market, let innovators innovate. And what's kind of sad about the last few years is that the SEC historically might not have been at the vanguard of, you know, pushing innovation and cheerleading and all that. But it also didn't really block things and stand athwart innovation. So back, I mean, believe it or not, when you talk about what people, when they wrote the 33 and 34 Acts were thinking of, they were in a paper world. And so you had paper stock certificates and all that. And so it was very cumbersome.

15:37你需要有過戶代理人，這樣你才能拿到股票憑證，然後說，某先生賣給某太太，然後我們會調整公司的帳簿和股票登記簿來反映這個交易。所以這個制度就這樣建立起來，事情就是這樣運作的。到了1960年代，美國證券市場終於出現了一波大多頭行情。You needed transfer agents in order to—you get the certificates and say, well, Mr. X sold to Mrs. Y, and, you know, we'll adjust the ledger books of the company and the stock ledger to reflect that. So it kind of built up, and this is the way things worked. And in the 1960s, finally, there was like a big bull market in the U.S. securities markets.

16:04由於有大量的新發行和大量的交易，導致整個基礎設施——你知道的，像是轉移股票和記錄這些從一個人到另一個人的過程——都快要崩潰了。因為他們真的有太多太多的紙本股票憑證，從一個券商傳到另一個券商，不管是在曼哈頓下城、費城還是舊金山等等，整個系統都快要崩潰了。券商因為記錄轉讓花太久時間而倒閉，導致交易失敗，因為真的拖太久了，人們就會放棄，說算了，我就取消這筆交易或其他的。With just lots of new issuances and lots of trading, so much so that the whole infrastructure of, you know, transferring shares and recording that from one person to another was just breaking down because they had just, I mean, you know, huge piles of paper certificates going from one broker-dealer to another down in Lower Manhattan or—Philadelphia and San Francisco and whatnot, and it was just the whole system was breaking down. Broker-dealers were going out of business because it was taking so long to record the transfers that the transactions would fail, and because it was just taking too long and people would move on and say, Forget it, I'm just canceling my transaction or whatever.

16:53所以那時候，這件事其實差一點就成為一場災難。於是SEC和產業界合作，提出了Depository Trust and Clearing Corporation，來實現股份的集中保管，以及帳簿記錄，也就是當時六零年代末、七零年代初所謂的數位帳簿記錄。這是一個非常重大的進步。SEC也修訂了相關規則，來配合這一切。之後在未來的其他時刻，像是ETF等新事物出現時，SEC也都非常努力地推動這些發展。雖然一開始這些想法剛出現時，SEC並不是第一時間就積極參與，但——最終還是跟上了。So that was, you know, right on the cusp of being a disaster. And so the SEC worked with the industry to come up with the Depository Trust and Clearing Corporation to have immobilized shares and book entry, you know, digital book entry for what passed as that in the late 60s, early 70s. So that was a huge step forward. The SEC amended its rules and accommodated all of that. And then other times in the future as well, you know, with ETFs and other things, the SEC was very much, you know, trying to help things along. Again, not really, you know, Johnny on the spot when the idea first came about, but—Eventually got around.

17:42所以在這裡，你知道，情況其實很類似，只是過去幾年，顯然SEC成為了一個阻礙，一個對於正在發生的事情來說非常巨大的阻礙。所以這麼說其實是想帶到，現在談到這個創新豁免條款，你知道，我們想要嘗試做的事情，就是讓大家有自由去實驗，基本上就是為他們新的創新想法做一個概念驗證，這個想法是針對國家市場系統證券的交易，也就是說，現在傳統上在證券交易所交易的那些證券。So here, you know, the same kind of thing, except that in the last few years, it was obviously the SEC was an impediment, a huge impediment to what was going on. So that's a long way of saying, going now to this innovation exemption, you know, what we want to try to do is allow people. Freedom to work out and do a proof of concept, basically, for their new innovative idea for trading national market system securities, meaning, you know, the securities that are traditionally now traded on the stock exchanges.

18:13而這項創新豁免將適用於傳統金融機構以及新創公司，但這是一個旨在協助推動事情發展的構想，包括在公共區塊鏈上自動化做市等相關應用。不過，我們希望能有明確的防護措施。因此，發行人的同意是這其中的核心。也就是說，發行這些證券的公司需要知道其證券的相關動態，而且我們還有其他法定規定，例如13D條款等等，這些規定要求像是當有人累積控制權或持有5%以上股份時，必須進行揭露。And this innovation exemption would be available for traditional financial firms as well as new ones, but this is an idea to try to help things go along, and including automatic market making, you know, on public blockchains and that sort of thing. So, but we want to have guardrails around it. So issuer consent is central to this. You know, the company who issued those securities needs to know what's going on with its securities, and they, you know, we have—Other statutory provisions that, like 13D and things like that, which, you know, provide for, you know, somebody who amasses control or 5% holding, you know, have to disclose that.

18:59所以這類事情是我們必須在事後檢視的重要事項，還有公司治理相關的部分。接下來，權限設定則是白名單機制的第二個重點，這關係到可能性，然後還有針對這類事情的投資人保護措施，接著是對於這個創新小型生態系統規模的交易量限制。也就是說，可能會針對參與者或受要約人數、資金規模等等來設限。這些內容都會納入即將提出的這項具體提案中，目的是降低風險。因此，這會聚焦在《1934年證券交易法》，而這將會是一項SEC即將宣布的豁免措施，目前我們正在推動這件事。So those sorts of things are important that we have to look at after, and with corporate governance and also. Then permissioning is a second for whitelisting, you know, possibilities, and then investor protections around that sort of thing, and then volume limits of how big this little ecosystem of that innovation could go. So as far as maybe number of—Offerees or participants, you know, perhaps money and, you know, that sort of thing. So that's what's all going to be in this particular proposal coming up, and that would be, you know, mitigating risk. So this is focusing on the 34 Act, and that would be an exemption that the SEC will announce as we're working on that now.

19:55所以這項措施的目標，是要實現鏈上合規交易，同時促進創新並保護投資人。這樣一來，我們就能夠評估結算效率以及流動性形成，為長期的規則制定做準備。透過這項特定豁免的運作，我們將獲得經驗，希望如此，然後我們也許可以——你知道，這可能會帶來的結果之一，就是對中介機構的依賴減少。我的意思是，任何創新都有可能產生這種持續性的影響。總之，我們會觀察情況發展。不過在接下來的一個月左右，我們會推出這項創新豁免，看看市場的反應如何。So the objectives of this are to enable on-chain compliant trading that promotes innovation while protecting investors. And then we can that way evaluate the settlement efficiency and the liquidity formation for a long-term rulemaking. So we'll get experience. From the working of this particular exemption, hopefully, and then we can, you know, there might be an outgrowth of that is, you know, maybe there's a reduced reliance on intermediaries. I mean, that's the thing about any kind of innovation. It might have that kind of ongoing effect. So anyway, and we'll see how that goes. But in the next month or so. We'll be coming out with this innovation exemption and see what the uptake is on it.

20:48（主持人）那真是太棒了。所以這會有一個正式的委員會提案，對吧？ （Atkins）嗯，這會是一個發布。那個不一定是提案。它不是一個擬議規則。我們根據 1934 年證券交易法擁有豁免權限。所以，但這會有明確的範圍，不會像是我們把大門敞開，讓所有東西都進來。但它會有結構性，而且適用範圍會很窄。 那太好了。(Moderator) That's incredible. So there will be a formal sort of commission proposal on this, right? (Atkins) Well, it'll be an issuance. That one's not necessarily a proposal. It's not a proposed rule. We have exemptive authority under the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. So, but it will be cabined in, so it's not like we're opening the barn door for, you know, everything to come in. But it will be structured and narrowly applied. That's great.

21:17分類、發行與監管邏輯

21:17所以我們在討論什麼是證券、什麼不是證券的分類，其實就像你過去所說的，大多數的這些資產——你知道，絕大多數其實都不是證券，然後再談到發行，再到相關的解釋。所以我覺得你是在很有邏輯地帶大家走過一個證券交易的流程。我想這對現場觀眾以及所有收聽的人來說，都是很值得期待的內容。So we talk about sort of classifications of what's a security and really what's not a security, along what you've said in the past, which is most of these are—You know, the vast majority are not securities, and then go to offerings, and then interpretations. So I feel like you're logically going through the course of sort of a securities transaction. So I think that's a lot for the audience and everyone else listening to look forward to.

21:48是啊，沒錯，我覺得這真的很令人興奮，而且，這真的很值得期待。再說一次，我們還要看看大家的接受度如何。我想像會有很多人會採用我們的這個方案，然後我們就可以看看接下來會發展到什麼地步。(Atkins) Yeah, no, it's exciting, I think, and it's very, you know, to see. Again, we'll see what the uptake is. I imagine that a lot of people will take us up on this, and we'll see where it goes from there.

22:02SEC 與 CFTC 的協作與未來展望

22:02我想我只剩下時間問最後一個問題，就是關於你剛剛討論過的那些很具代表性的工作，其中一項就是你和CFTC以及主席Selig的合作。去年七月，你們宣布了Project Crypto，這是一項全委員會的倡議，目的是要現代化證券相關的規則與監管，讓美國的金融市場能夠上鏈運作。我以前沒聽過crypto mama這個稱呼，但我很喜歡這個用在Peirce委員身上。現在這已經成為你們和CFTC共同推動的計畫，作為你們支持兩個機構之間協調一致的努力之一。甚至還有一份MOU（合作備忘錄）來推動這件事。你實際上發現這份MOU帶來了什麼意義？你對未來又有什麼期望？So I think I have time just for one last question, which is about the great work that, you know, seems emblematic of the work you've just discussed, which is the work with the CFTC and with Chairman Selig. So last July, you announced Project Crypto, which was a commission-wide initiative to modernize the securities rules and regulation to enable America's financial markets to move on-chain. I've never heard crypto mama, but I like that for Commissioner Peirce. It's now a joint effort with the CFTC as part of your efforts to support harmonization between the two agencies. And there's even an MOU on this. What have you found the MOU to mean in practice, and what are you hoping for going forward?

22:51你剛才提到這兩個像堡壘一樣的機構。你認為大家有可能放下武器，並且有希望打開大門嗎？我希望如此。我非常支持停火，總之。但你知道，我們的目標其實就是——再次強調——要共同解決所有這些問題，並且努力打破這兩個機構之間的高牆。而且，你知道，我們希望能夠和國會協同合作。所以我們正在等待CLARITY Act。希望它能夠通過，就像我幾分鐘前提到的那樣，但你知道，我們需要提供明確的規範，而國會是唯一能讓這些規範具備未來適應性的機構。(Atkins) You talked about these two sort of fortresses. Do you think people can take down their weapons and hopefully open the doors? I hope so. I'm a big ceasefire, so anyway. But, you know, we'll be able to—our goal is to really, again... Address all of these issues jointly and to try to break down the walls between the two agencies. And, you know, we'll be working hopefully in concert with Congress. So we're waiting for the Clarity Act. Hopefully it will come through, as I was mentioning a few minutes ago, but, you know, we need to provide clarity, and Congress is the only one that can future-proof it.

23:33因為我真的最不想看到的情況就是，我們花了這麼多努力，結果過了四年、八年、十二年之後，又有人出現把這一切推翻，然後我們又回到原點。所以我們必須——這也是為什麼我們現在採取非常審慎的步驟，這樣我們才能打好基礎，讓法院也能夠跟上我們的腳步，理解我們想要做什麼。我們並不是把寶寶和洗澡水一起倒掉，而是盡量讓整個過程合乎邏輯，並且能夠經得起時間的考驗。Because what I really would hate to see is that we go through all this effort, and then in another, you know, four, eight, 12 years, something like that, someone comes along to undo it, and then we take us back to where we were. So we have to. That's why we're proceeding in a very deliberative type of order here, so that we're laying the groundwork and that, you know, courts can go along with us and understand what we're trying to do. We're not throwing the baby out of the door or anything like that, but, you know, try to make it so that, you know, it is logical and stands. will stand the test of time.

24:15所以，你知道，真正的目標是，我們希望透過監管來提升明確性。這是我們的職責範圍，然後再透過立法建立一個長久穩固的架構，而這顯然是國會的職責範圍。我認為我們正處於這個關鍵時刻。我覺得如果真的發生了，會非常好。所以，我們一直在嘗試協助他們，還有CFTC也是。不過我們兩個機構，這兩個單位，真的可以一起合作，我認為可以取得很大的進展。And so, you know, the real goal is, you know, we want to increase clarity through regulation. That's in our remit, and then have a durable structure through legislation, and that's obviously in Congress's remit. I think we're on the cusp of that. I think it would be great if it happens. And so, you know, we've been trying to help them and the CFTC as well. But the two of us, the two agencies can really work on that together and I think make a lot of progress.

24:44結語與展望

24:44（主持人）非常感謝 Atkins 主席的分享，也感謝您的明確指引。我們期待 SEC 未來的工作，大家都很感謝您和團隊的努力。謝謝大家。(Moderator) Well, thank you so much, Chairman Atkins, for your time. Thank you for your remarks and your clarity. And we look forward to the Commission's work. And I think I speak for everyone, thank you for the good work that you're doing. Thank you very much. Good to see you all.