PayPal、Fireblocks、MoonPay、Rain 談穩定幣重塑支付產業

0:00穩定幣成為金融新常態

0:00各位，怎麼樣？主舞台，我們做到了。我從沒想過有一天能在 OKX 主舞台，於 TOKEN2049 談論穩定幣如何徹底改變支付產業。那我們就從我一直在思考的一個問題開始吧。2026 年，作為一家金融服務公司，你能存在嗎？作為 fintech、銀行等，沒有穩定幣布局還能有相關性嗎？Well, how about this, guys? Main stage. We've made it. I never thought I'd see the day that I'd be at the OKX main stage at Token talking about how stablecoins are going to revolutionize payments. So. Let's start with a question that I've been pondering. Can you exist as a financial services company? Can you be relevant in 2026 as a fintech, a bank, et cetera, and not have a footprint in stablecoins?

0:40我來回答吧。請說，別害羞。我一點也不害羞。我認為絕對不行。我覺得任何沒參與、沒互動的 fintech，甚至更廣泛的金融機構，不論他們在思考數位貨幣、數位資產還是 agentic，這些對我來說都是不可妥協的。Ivan，你怎麼看？這就是未來，對吧？這趨勢無法避免。只要你在這個圈子裡，幾乎每天都會聽到穩定幣這個詞。它就像美元銀行帳戶的代理，對全世界來說極有價值。我覺得這個趨勢已經進入加速階段，這就是銀行業的未來。它讓資金流動更快，這是最大的突破。Okay, I'll jump in. Please do. Don't be shy. Definitely not shy. So I definitely don't think so. So I think anybody who's not interacting, engaging as a fintech, even broader than fintechs, whether they're thinking about digital currencies, digital assets, or agentic, those to me are non-negotiable. Ivan. It's the future, right? You can't avoid this trend everywhere. You can't go, I think, a single day without hearing the word stablecoin if you're in this world. It's a proxy for a U.S. dollar bank account, and that's incredibly valuable to the world. And so I think this trend is on steroids. It's the future of banking. And it adds a velocity to money. I think that's the major unlock.

1:30當你思考穩定幣的價值主張時，前三大重點是什麼？我認為首先是可程式化，未來會更明顯。我們正處於早期階段，大家開始思考如何無縫地調度資金流動，這帶來很多有價值的工作流程。我覺得資金流動性也是關鍵，能真正利用圍繞信用建立的整個市場，因為你無法在不同司法區之間無縫移動資金。中間有很多中介，所以能簡單調度、讓資金更順暢流動很重要。第三點是互通性，未來可以跨不同生態系、不同區塊鏈存在。對我們來說，這很有趣，因為你不用侷限於單一生態系，資產本身的可組合性可以跨生態發揮優勢，運作起來非常順暢、更便宜、更快、全年無休。When you think about the value propositions of stablecoins, what are the top three? I mean, I think first it's around the idea of programmability eventually, right? I think we're getting into the early stages where people are thinking about how to orchestrate the movement of money in a seamless way. And that effectuates a lot of workflows that I think are valuable. I think the velocity piece is also key, right? The ability to really take advantage of entire markets that build around credit and the fact that you can't move money seamlessly across different jurisdictions. There are a lot of intermediaries, and so actually the ability to really, like, orchestrate that in a simple way and move money more seamlessly is key. And then I think, like, interoperability eventually is the third piece, right? It can exist across different ecosystems and different blockchains. And for us, I think that's a really interesting point because you don't really have to concentrate on the fact that you're operating within one ecosystem. Really, the composability of the asset itself takes advantage of whatever ecosystem it sits across. It can work pretty seamlessly. Cheaper, faster, 24/7.

2:37沒錯，世界正變得更有效率，這是一種更有效率的技術。你想想，大多數銀行系統是在 1990 年代建立的。現在我們有一條新軌道，有一種新的檔案格式，能跨不同鏈運作。這技術將無所不在。我認為這會從加密原生團隊開始，他們從零打造全新銀行體驗，從錢包開始。我們看到新型態數位銀行（neobank）崛起，已經超越加密資產的投機用途，變成更好的銀行版本。傳統機構也開始把這技術嵌入現有通路。你會看到兩邊同時發展，這力量非常強大。只要你有網路連線，無論身在世界哪裡，都能開錢包、收到穩定幣價值。Right, and the world is becoming more efficient. This is a more efficient technology. If you think about, you know, most of the banking system, it was built in the 1990s, right? And so now we have a rail, and we have a new file format that sits on top of the rail across these different chains. And, you know, it's going to be embedded everywhere. And I think it's going to come from crypto natives that are building these brand new banking experiences from the ground up, from wallets. We're seeing the rise of neobanks. We're going beyond speculation of crypto assets to essentially a better version of a bank. And then you're seeing traditional orgs start to embed that technology directly into their existing distribution. So you're going to see it come from both sides. But it's incredibly powerful. As long as you have an internet connection anywhere in the world, you can spin up a wallet and you can receive value in the form of a stablecoin.

3:26想想這些人，他們以前用 Western Union 匯款，我知道你們也跟他們合作，讓這些人能真正競逐未來。但傳統上，從 A 匯到 B，平均成本大約 6%，非常昂貴。如果有替代方案，人們一定會選擇更便宜、更快、更好的方式。但消費者真的在意嗎？他們有感受到這對金融服務互動方式的改變嗎？Think about all these people. You know, we're using Western Union, and I know you guys are partnering with them, and you're enabling these guys to really compete for the future. But, you know, traditionally costs were on average about 6%, right, moving money from A to B. That's incredibly expensive. And so if there's an alternative, people are going to opt into that alternative. It's cheaper, faster, better. But do consumers care? Do they see the impact from the perspective of how it changes the way they can engage with their financial services?

3:57消費者行為與全球規模

3:57如果你看網路上的討論，針對各種金融產品，很多人會因為省下 30 美分就改變行為，甚至整個消費習慣。世界上很多地方，30 美分是很有意義的金額，可能決定一天結束時有沒有錢。所以只要能打造更好、更快、更便宜的解決方案，人們當然會改變行為，當然會在意。但他們在意的其實不是穩定幣本身，而是能否取得原本無法取得的產品與服務。我們現在看到的市場現象是，因為穩定幣基礎設施和解決方案更好、更快、更便宜、普及度更高，人們才採用，因為他們原本無法取得高品質產品與服務。要提供高品質產品所需的規模經濟很大，很多市場單靠自己做不到，所以你需要全球解決方案來提供這種規模經濟。有了穩定幣，這比以前容易多了。I think if you look at the discourse on the internet, right, around a variety of different financial products available in the market. Many people are choosing what they're going to rely on based on 30 cents, right? They're like, Oh, I'm going to switch my entire behavior because I saved 30 cents on this transaction. And there's a lot of places in the world where 30 cents is a meaningful amount of money, and it's the difference between having money at the end of the day or not having money at the end of the day, and so. If you can build better, faster, cheaper solutions, of course people are going to change their behavior. Of course they're going to care. But what they care about is not necessarily the stablecoin element. What they care about is access to products and services that they wouldn't normally have access to. What we see mostly happening in the market right now is that because stablecoin-powered infrastructure and solutions are better, faster, cheaper, More widely available, people are adopting them because they don't have access to high-quality products and services. The economies of scale you need to provide high-quality products is significant, and so many markets on a standalone basis, they just don't have that scale. And so you need a global solution that is going to come in and provide you. The economies of scale that you need to operate a high-quality product. And with stablecoins, it becomes easier to do than it's been before.

5:26我覺得大家要思考一點，就是零售和機構層級的差異。穩定幣對零售端來說更便宜，但對機構端、大規模資金來說，通常沒那麼便宜。這涉及流動性深度等問題。不過，現在談到代幣化貨幣或穩定幣，對零售使用者來說很有意義，機構端未來也可能改變。正如 Ivan 剛才說的，開錢包很簡單，能享受較低成本。當你思考穩定幣在機構領域的作用時，跨國企業現在有很好的跨境資金移動價格。大家要把這當成兩種不同的應用場景來看。Maybe for me, I think there's like a slight difference that folks should think about in terms of, like, retail versus institutional, right? Stablecoins are cheaper for retail. They're not generally cheaper on the institutional level with, like, significant size, right? So. You know, there's the liquidity depths and all those different things that people need to think about. But I think in general, you know, when you think about tokenized money or stablecoins, like for the retail use case right now, and I'm not saying for, like, institutional use case it won't change, but it does make a lot of sense, right? To point Ivan raised, the ability to spin up a wallet is seamless. The ability to actually take advantage of lower costs is there. As you start to think about what stablecoins start to do on the institutional landscape, you know, there's really strong pricing for large corporates to move money across border. Sure. And so people need to kind of think about that as, like, a broader difference between the two use cases.

6:21穩定幣多元化與信任門檻

6:21感謝你們在你們的主場城市接待我們，很開心來到新加坡。上一場 Haseeb 有很多有趣的觀點，他一直主張區塊鏈就像城市，不是零和遊戲，你可以有上千條鏈，就像有新加坡、紐約、東京一樣。那穩定幣也是這樣嗎？未來會有多少種？我覺得現在有幾個很有趣的趨勢。你有聯盟型穩定幣，歷史上穩定幣主要被 Tether 和 Circle 兩家主導。但現在你看到其他公司崛起，有顯著的護城河和通路，想要掌握部分經濟利益，所以他們有很強的動機發行自家穩定幣。每家公司都該自己發行穩定幣、取得執照、確保合規嗎？我不太確定。我認為這時基礎設施供應商就很重要，讓大家更容易利用這些技術。但現在我們看到經濟利益正在轉移，未來不會只有兩家公司，這市場會競爭更激烈。如果你有自有品牌穩定幣、有平台、有通路，當然值得做。Thank you for having us in your home city, by the way. Appreciate it. It's great to be here in Singapore. Haseeb, who graced the stage on the previous panel, had a lot of interesting things to say, has long advocated for the idea of blockchains being cities, effectively. It's not a zero-sum game. You can have thousands of blockchains, just as you can have Singapore, New York, Tokyo, et cetera, et cetera. Is that the same case for stablecoins? How many of these are there going to be? I think we're seeing a couple of really interesting trends. You have essentially these consortium stablecoins, and, you know, really stablecoins have historically been dominated by two names, Tether and Circle. But now you're seeing the rise of other companies that have Significant mode, significant distribution, taking advantage of that distribution and wanting to own part of the economics. And so there's a big rationale and reason for them to actually go and issue their own stable. Does it make sense for every single company to, you know, undergo the work it requires to go issue their own stablecoin, get the requisite licensing? Make sure it's compliant for the various jurisdictions. I'm not necessarily convinced. I think that's where infrastructure providers come in and make it simpler for people to take advantage of this. But I think what we're now starting to see is a shift of economics, right? It's not just going to be, I think, two companies in the future. This market is going to become far more competitive. And, you know, if you can have your own branded stablecoin and you can launch that relatively quickly. And you have a platform, you have distribution. I think 100% it makes sense.

8:05那什麼會決定誰能勝出？我認為是信任。你可以在這領域跑很快，但最終談的是價值。以我們正在打造的應用來說，這關係到人們的資產和生計，不論是企業追求營運效率，還是消費者希望資產保值、跨境秒到、成本極低，這些都是我們和 PayPal 完全專注的重點，就是如何把這些帶進全球商業。消費者和商家的期待已經改變，今天我們能用幾秒鐘發 email，價值傳遞也應該這麼快。但這也帶來責任和信任，體驗要簡單、要合規、要有紀律和深思熟慮的態度。What's going to separate the wheat from the chaff? I think trust. I think that it's really important to, you can go fast in a space, but you're ultimately talking about value, right? And— And in these cases and use cases we're building, at least, is people's money and livelihood, whether it's businesses and getting operational efficiency, and that means the actual livelihood of their business. Does it survive day to day because the money is moving faster or it is, you know, cheaper, or they're attracting a global base, whether it's consumers whose hard-earned money stays stable. It crosses borders in seconds versus days. It's fractions of a cost. So all these use cases, at least that us and PayPal are completely focused on, is how do you take that into global commerce? Consumers and merchants' expectations have changed. We can send an email today in seconds, right? You should be able to send value within that speed. But with that comes a responsibility. It comes a trust that you need to instill. It means the simplicity of your experiences. It means regulatory forward and being compliant, and taking a very disciplined and thoughtful approach to it.

9:22你說得很對，信任很重要，但我覺得流動性深度和通路也關鍵，這常常被低估。最後如果有人在越南、迦納、辛巴威等地領錢，他們需要能把穩定幣兌換成當地貨幣。很多代幣化存款或其他方案，都是封閉生態，資金出不去。Circle 和 Tether 做得很好的是，他們的通路和出金能力非常廣。新穩定幣會在這方面遇到困難，也許大玩家能慢慢建立，但大多數會是單一平台，很難擴展出去。最後還是要有中介來提供市場，讓大家能從一個平台換到另一個穩定幣，真正兌現。做不到這點，發行方會很難突破。消費者其實不太在意，他們在大多數錢包裡，直接把穩定幣當現金看待，現金加個星號，但本質就是活存帳戶，是你的入口。Maybe, you know, I think you're absolutely spot on in terms of trust, but— I do think the ability for liquidity depth and distribution is key. I think that's something that's, like, vastly underestimated, right? So at the end of the day, if someone's getting paid in Vietnam or in, you know, Ghana or in Zimbabwe or wherever it might be, they need to be able to redeem that for value, right? And so if you think about where a lot of, like— The tokenized deposit plays or any of these other things, they're like trapped ecosystems that you really can't move out of. I think what Circle and Tether have done really well is that their distribution and their ability to, you know, get out of that stablecoin into local currency is like extremely wide, right? And so for a lot of the new stablecoins, I think they're going to struggle. With that distribution aspect, like obviously big players may come together and build that over time, but I think either they're going to be singular platform plays, and it'll be very hard to extend beyond that. And then someone will have to come in as an intermediary and basically provide a market to get out of a platform and into another stable where someone can actually redeem. But the inability to do that, I think, will be like stifling for any of these stablecoin issues. issue areas to kind of overcome. And I think the consumer doesn't really care. I think the consumer, if you look inside of most wallets, what's a really interesting trend that we're seeing in real time is they're just referring to stablecoins as cash, cash with a star. But it's cash. It's a checking account, and that's your entry point.

10:54穩定幣商業模式與支付經濟學

10:54所以當你在發行穩定幣、打造新一代數位銀行 app，重點在於你有沒有因為這些經濟利益而受惠。大多數 fintech 業務可以拆成四大收入來源：一是 float 業務，也就是持有資金、靠國庫券利息賺錢；二是交易收入，像是穩定幣和其他加密資產兌換時賺取價差；三是發卡的 interchange 收入，Rain 就有這經驗；四是訂閱或服務收入。當你思考這些白牌穩定幣進入市場時，重點在於你有沒有掌握通路和客戶，能不能分享到這些經濟利益。現有玩家過去不太願意分享利息收入，這也促使很多夥伴想自己做。如果有夥伴能協助、門檻不高，就有機會切入。但你說得沒錯，流動性供給很重要，否則不能換回法幣或其他加密資產，就無法發揮穩定幣的全部潛力和價值。And so, you know, when it comes to stablecoin issuance, when you are building the next generation neobanker app, I think really what it comes down to is, are you getting rewarded for those economics, right? Like, most fintech businesses, you can really break down in a couple, really four main areas of their business in which they're able to monetize. They're either running a float business, right? So they're holding onto balances and they're earning interest income on the treasury bills that are basically backing those stablecoins in some way. They're making money on trades, right, or moving. You know, from a stablecoin into any crypto asset, and so they're earning some sort of spread on that. They're making money on interchange, right, if you're issuing cards, right? Rain has seen that. And then really the last piece is subscriptions or services income, and those are really your four buckets. And so really when you're thinking about, you know, these white-label stablecoins that are coming to market, It's really, well, if you've captured the distribution, you have those customers. Are you being rewarded with those economics? And so I think the existing players need to adapt. They've historically not wanted to share any of that interest income. And so I think that's what's prompting a lot of these partners to say, well, you know, if it's not so difficult and a partner can help me do this, then there's an opportunity to do it. But you're 100% right that, you know, there is a lot of work around liquidity provision because if it isn't liquid and you can't convert it back into fiat or into other crypto assets, you know, you're going to be constrained with realizing the full potential and value of that stablecoin.

12:19Ivan，我很高興你提到這點，因為我想深入討論支付經濟學因穩定幣而改變的地方。誰是贏家，誰是輸家？會有什麼變化？有趣的是，越來越多價值會轉移到這個新系統。經濟利益現在流向發行方或掌控穩定幣的人。交易成本下降，對消費者很有利。但這不代表 Visa 和 Mastercard 會消失，因為他們有強大的網路效應。人們還是需要在日常生活中花穩定幣，讓每個商家都能接受加密貨幣，可能還要十年。我不知道現場有多少人真的用加密貨幣付款，現在有些地方可以用，前景不錯，未來大家會慢慢加入。但目前最方便的還是把卡綁定錢包直接消費，這是現在增長最快的趨勢。經濟利益還是回到那幾個收入來源：float 利息、交易、interchange。Ivan, I'm glad you brought that up because I'm keen to double click on the economics of payments and how they change because of stablecoins. Who are the winners? Who are the losers? What changes in that respect? Yeah, well, what's really interesting is I think the trend is more and more value is going to shift over this new system. And so the economics now go to the issuers or the people that control those stablecoins. And so transaction costs come down, which is great for the consumer. But it doesn't mean that Visa and Mastercard are going away. Like, there's just insane network effects. And so people need to spend their stablecoins in everyday life. It's going to take probably a decade for every merchant to have a POS terminal that is able to accept a crypto. I don't know how many of you guys in the audience have actually paid with crypto. There are places, there are pockets, and it is promising. And I think over time, people will opt into that system. But what's far more convenient is just having a card attached to that wallet and being able to spend, right? So I think, you know, that's what is probably the fastest growing trend that we're seeing in real time right now. And so the economics, again, really go back to those buckets. It's interest income on float, it's trading, and it's interchange.

13:28但要記得全球面向，Farooq 剛才也有提到。在已開發市場，大家不急著用穩定幣支付，即使有獎勵，我還是會用信用卡拿回饋，不會改用穩定幣。但在新興市場和其他地區，資金取得很貴，換匯也很貴，甚至本國貨幣每天都在貶值，這些都會帶來成本。所以你要看支付軌道和應用場景，是跨境還是本地帳戶、網路，這些怎麼轉成穩定幣軌道，經濟利益怎麼轉移？還有不同應用場景要考慮，要用全球視角來看。I think, though, it's important to remember the global aspect, and Farouk touched on this. So I think in developed markets, there isn't a rush. Even if you incentivize me, like, I'm still going to use my credit card rewards. I'm still not adopting stablecoin payments. When you talk about emerging markets and other areas and regions, it's actually expensive to get money. It's expensive to switch into different values. It's actually expensive because my currency devalues day by day, and that costs me. And so I think. You know, there's, yes, when you look at rails and payments, depending on the use case, is it cross-border or are there Nostro-Vostro accounts or are there networks, and how does that now change into a stablecoin rail, and where does the economic shift? But there's also different use cases we need to think about and take a global lens.

14:20穩定幣獎勵與信用卡未來

14:20你剛剛提到從消費者、商家和開發者的角度來看，就像我們在做 PYUSDX 一樣。其實這不是一個簡單的問題，也沒有單一答案。大家都很在意回饋，這點很重要。我不認為信用卡會很快消失。現在已經是第四季了，Ivan，這代表像 Lululemon、Resy 信用回饋這些都很熱門，大家都想用這些優惠。我的看法是，如果穩定幣真的要成為支付工具，就必須把這種回饋機制帶進來。最快的方式可能就是發行和穩定幣連結的卡片，讓大家透過 Mastercard 網路來用。但長遠來看，為什麼不直接用穩定幣結算呢？只是你必須有誘因才會這麼做，我同意。And then I think you raise this consumer merchant and developer lens, like we are with PYUSDX. So. I think there's, it's not just like one simple answer and response. People are hooked on the rewards. That's a really good point. I know. And so I don't think credit cards are going away anytime soon. And so we're in the fourth quarter, Ivan, so that means Lululemon, Resy credit, right? Those are great things you want to take advantage of. So, you know, I think my view is we're going to need to find a way to bring that same level of reward mechanism into stablecoins themselves if they're actually going to be used as a form of payment. And so probably the shortcut for us getting there is these stablecoin-linked cards, and people are going to be using them vis a Mastercard network. But over time, why not settle just directly in the stablecoin? But you need to be incentivized to do that. I agree.

15:07那你覺得這會怎麼影響信用卡產業？我認為現在有幾個現象正在發生。我們有一些專案是針對法幣應用場景的，但背後的基礎設施其實已經用上穩定幣技術。這代表信用是透過穩定幣流動性金庫來提供，另一端則還是傳統信用卡。同樣地，我們也看到錢包連結的餘額，你刷卡時，資金會經過授權層，然後從你的錢包轉到其他地方。因為這一切都是程式化的，資金是可程式化的，你可以組合交易。未來很令人期待的一點是，怎麼打造更靈活、能隨著個人財務歷程調整的金融產品。So how do you think it impacts the credit card business specifically? I think ultimately, right, there's a few things happening. So one of the things we see is we have programs that we power that are fiat use cases, right? Now the backend infrastructure for that is powered by stablecoin technology. So that means that Credit is being provisioned using stablecoin liquidity vaults, and there's a traditional credit card on the other side. Similarly, we see wallet-linked balances. So you're swiping a payment instrument, it's going over the authorization layer and then moving the money from your wallet to somewhere else. I think ultimately what we see is that because it's programmatic, The money is programmable. You're able to compose the transaction. One of the exciting, you know, opportunities ahead is how do you build better financial products that are more flexible, that allow people to kind of adjust between your journey as an individual, right?

16:10有些人一開始信用紀錄很薄，難以核貸，但隨著時間累積收入、借貸、還款，建立起信用歷史。現在其實沒有產品能隨著你成長自動調整。現行金融體系的產品都是一體適用，像是分 S、M、L、XL 號。未來有機會打造可組合的產品，讓你的信用品質提升時，有不同的資金方提供信用。你可以維持原本的回饋，也可以增加回饋，甚至根據客戶品質調整。這就像更即時的金融服務。現在我們看到穩定幣能解鎖很多開放銀行當初承諾的願景。So, like, some people start their life as relatively, you know, skinny on the credit file perspective, so hard to underwrite. Then over time, they earn money, they borrow money, they repay it, they develop a history. And today, there's really no product that you can, that will just adjust with you, right? Yeah. The way that the financial system works today, it's all very much this product is one size fits everything that it fits in here. So it's like small, medium, large, extra large, whatever, and so. There's an opportunity to start building products that are composable so that as your credit quality evolves, different people are providing you that credit on the other side. You can keep the rewards the way they are. You can add rewards. You can adjust for the quality of the customer as they expand through time. It's like more real time financial services. A lot of, I think what we see right now is that stablecoins are a way to unlock a lot of the promise that open banking, you know, was promising, right?

17:10開放銀行落空與即時資金流動

17:10開放銀行在全球大多成效有限，很多人期待的事並沒有發生。像是大家以為可以隨時把錢移到最高利率的帳戶，再移回來消費，但這些都沒實現，因為底層基礎設施沒升級。以美國為例，ACH 轉帳要三天，從貨幣市場基金轉回銀行帳戶也很慢，根本沒辦法即時消費，還得提前規劃，非常麻煩，所以大多數人根本不會這麼做。如果有代理人能用穩定幣或代幣化存款即時移動資金，這個情況就會改變，大家就必須在產品品質上競爭，對消費者福祉來說是好事，對機構則未必。Like open banking around the world has largely been a dud, where many of the things people expected to happen— Oh, you know, every— You mean like the big wave of lending startups? Yeah, open banking, but also like the whole concept of like, oh, you know, you'll be able to move money to the highest earning yield bucket, and then you'll be able to move it to get spending. Like that largely didn't materialize because the underlying infrastructure to facilitate that never got upgraded, right? So if you look in the United States, it's a three-day transfer between ACH, you know, between one institution and the other. If you're moving from a money market fund to your bank account to be able to spend the money, You're not going to be able to have that. You have to plan ahead to do that, and so it's enormously complicated to do, and so most people don't do it. If you have agents that are able to move your money in real time using stablecoins or tokenized deposits, that changes that dynamic, and now people have to compete on product quality, which again, from a consumer welfare perspective, is actually very good. From an institutional welfare perspective, potentially it's less good.

18:10這也帶來機會，回到你剛剛的問題，誰會是贏家、誰會是輸家？每當產業變革時，機構就有機會決定要不要成為贏家。你是想在這波創新週期中勝出，還是只想避免被顛覆？我們每天都看到這種情況。我們服務像 Western Union 這樣的大公司，他們選擇主動參與穩定幣生態，不等創新發生後再決定怎麼應對，而是直接投入，想辦法在這波浪潮中找到獲利機會。過去很多機構在創新週期中被淘汰，這次是全球機構選擇要不要參與的機會，還是坐等被影響。And so it creates the opportunity, back to your question earlier, of like, who are the winners going to be and who are the losers going to be? I think whenever change happens, it creates the opportunity for institutions to decide, am I interested in being a winner? Like, am I interested in being somebody that wins on the other side of this innovation cycle, or am I quite happy to try to avoid this disrupting my existing business? We see this every day, right? So we power very large companies like Western Union. Western Union has decided in the stablecoin ecosystem, they're not going to sit back and wait for the innovation to happen and then decide how it impacts their business. They're going to join the fray and they're going to live inside the maelstrom to get to the other side to figure out how they can monetize this and be a winner on the other side, right? Many people have been left behind by previous innovation cycles. This innovation cycle is an opportunity for institutions globally to decide, do I want to be part of it, or do I want to sit back and relax and pretend that this is not going to impact my life in the future?

19:16AI 與穩定幣的結合

19:16AI 會不會加速穩定幣成長？絕對會。這波超級智慧浪潮無法忽視。當超級智慧結合加密貨幣和錢包基礎設施，這些去中心化、可隨處移動的基礎設施，未來你錢包裡會有穩定幣餘額，這些餘額能自動流向有收益的產品。現在銀行體系很有趣的是，很多錢都卡在活存帳戶，大家其實很難把錢移到儲蓄帳戶賺利息，明明就在眼前，卻沒人去做，結果錯失收益。未來我們會把信任交給代理人，這很關鍵，人類還是要參與其中，必須慢慢建立信任。我很希望有個代理人能根據我設定的條件，自動把錢移到最高利率的儲蓄方案。這會是很棒的創新，消費者會大幅受益。Is AI going to supercharge the growth of stablecoins? Absolutely. I mean. 100%. I think you can't avoid this incredible trend of superintelligence. And superintelligence, when you combine it with crypto and wallet infrastructure, permissionless infrastructure that can move anywhere, yeah, you're going to see a world where embedded inside your wallet, you have a stablecoin balance, and it can automatically start to move those balances into yield. Yield-bearing products. What's so interesting and fascinating about the banking system today is how much money sits in checking accounts where there's a friction to actually go and move your money into a savings account. It's right there in front of you, but a lot of people don't take advantage of that, and so they miss out on that yield. You know, you can imagine when we start to delegate trust to an agent, and, you know, that's a really key piece. Like, humans are going to need to be in the loop. We're going to need to gain some trust for these things over time. But I would love an agent to autonomously move my money into the highest optimizing, you know, savings rate based on the constraints that I set it, right? That would be a phenomenal innovation. So I think we're going to see massive disruption on that side, which should ultimately benefit the consumer.

20:27PayPal 使用者行為與跨境支付

20:27May，我很好奇以 PayPal 的角度來看，你們有 Venmo、PayPal、加密支付，客戶怎麼使用這些不同的工具？其實都是根據使用情境來選擇。在我們的錢包裡，有主流的信任錢包，Venmo 只在美國用，但 PayPal 是全球性的。平台上也能交易數位資產，讓使用者可以輕鬆進入這個領域、了解並參與。這是數位資產更主流的一面。至於穩定幣，則是從支付和商務角度來思考。跨境支付是最明顯的痛點，也是最容易被採用的場景，尤其在已開發和開發中國家差異很大。開發中國家需要穩定貨幣來對抗本地通膨，使用者可以用穩定幣賺錢、消費、交易，這才真正發揮威力。現在價值可以在全球幾秒鐘內低成本流動，對雙方都有實質效益。消費者會從跨境或本地急需的場景開始採用，企業則會從資金結算等需求切入，像是需要更快結算以提升營運效率。May, I'm curious, given PayPal's seat, right? You've got Venmo, you've got PayPal, you've got crypto payments. How are you seeing Or how are customers or clients engaging with those different vehicles? What's sort of the breakdown of their preference? It's use case based, right? So when we think about, so within our wallets, we have trusted wallets, mainstream. Venmo is U.S. only, but PayPal has global reach. And so there's the inclusion of OK trading and the ability to interact with digital assets within the platform. Again, just an easy, simple way for them to be able to enter in the space, understand, get involved. And so that's kind of the broader side of digital assets and more mainstream. And then there's the, okay, how do you now start thinking about stablecoins and really embedding that from a payments and commerce perspective? And so on that lens, there's cross-border payments, I think, because that's where the highest kind of friction points, at least initially, and the easier one to adopt, especially again when we talked about developed versus developing. In developing markets, there's a need to access a stable currency so that it hedges against local, right, the currency inflation, the different aspects of that. And then you can use that, earn, spend, and be able to actually transact with it. And that's where it becomes actually super powerful. And now value, let's say stable, can move across the world in. Seconds and fractions of a cost, and actually now have end-state utility for both. And so I think that's where we continue to see there is the emergence of where consumers will adopt it, especially from a cross-border lens or a local lens where it really is acute. And then there's the businesses that will start to kind of interact with it, and especially probably settlement, I'd say, is one of the use cases. There's businesses that need settlement of the funds faster versus, like, at a weekly timestamp, so that they can operationally move their business in a healthier way.

22:42穩定幣的高估與低估之處

22:42你們覺得穩定幣最被高估和低估的地方是什麼？或者大家關注過多或忽略了哪些重點？我覺得很多人只見樹木不見森林。我們花很多時間討論穩定幣，但事實是貨幣正在被代幣化，不管你喜不喜歡，這會有很多形式，包括 CBDC、穩定幣、代幣化存款，這些都要在區塊鏈上運作，都是非同質化的貨幣，可以程式化移動、跨機構轉帳。這些工具會有不同的易用性、網路效應、手續費和收益。再加上代幣化的實體資產，例如貨幣市場基金，也是另一種貨幣型工具。這帶來很多複雜性，最後還是要靠開發者決定要改善什麼樣的使用者體驗。我認為未來三到四年，大家討論的會是數位貨幣，而不是穩定幣，穩定幣只是其中一種格式，所有東西都要互通。無論你住在新加坡、東京、紐約或其他地方，都會受到影響，這不會消失，每個人都要有應對計畫。What do you guys think is the most overrated and underrated element of stablecoins, or maybe what folks are paying too much attention to or not enough attention to? I think a lot of people are missing the forest for the trees, right? I mean, we spend a lot of time talking about stablecoins. The reality is, is that money is getting tokenized whether we like it or not, and that's going to take several forms. One is going to be CBDC, stablecoins, tokenized deposits. All of these things have to run on blockchain infrastructure, and they're all non-fungible money, so that money can be programmatically moved, it can be sent from one institution to another. All of those types of instruments are going to have Different elements of usability and different network effects, different fees, different yields associated with them. And then on top of that, now we're adding, you know, tokenized real-world assets, which could be a money market fund, which is another sort of money-type instrument. So there's a lot of complexity that is emerging. Ultimately, this is going to go down to, you know, the responsibility of builders and developers that are building solutions. To decide what is the user experience I'm optimizing for. I think over the next, like, three to four years, I think conversations on stages like this will be around digital money. It's not going to be around stablecoins. Stablecoins will be just another format, but all of it is going to have to work together. And I think a lot of people are ignoring the fact that whether you like it or not. Whether you live in Singapore, you live in Tokyo, or you live in New York, or you live somewhere else entirely, this is going to impact you. You're going to have to deal with this. You're going to have to have a plan, and it's not going away. And so I think a lot of people just expect, oh, well, you know, maybe this will just get regularized and regulation will make it go away, or it'll get plugged in some way and I don't have to worry about it. The reality is, is that genie is out of the bottle, and, like, this is not going anywhere. Everybody has to have a plan and figure this out.

24:45金融科技顛覆與銀行角色轉變

24:45我想補充，其實現在美國很多金融科技和支付公司都拿到銀行執照，自己創新整個產業。以前你是支付或金融科技公司，最後一哩路還是得靠銀行。你可以有穩定幣、OTC 交易，但要完整執行流程還是得靠銀行。產業顛覆的速度取決於銀行願不願意接受金融科技或支付業者。現在如果你在美國拿到 OCC 執照，理論上有主帳戶，就能主導資金流和服務設計。我覺得這點被低估了，大家以為只是搶走信用合作社的生意，但其實這會改變大家對資金流和市場速度的想像。這是目前大家還沒完全意識到的事。Maybe I was going to say it's actually around the fact that fintechs and payments firms are actually, in places like the U.S., getting licenses to actually operate banking systems and enable kind of, like, innovation in the entire sector themselves, right? So. You know, for me, what becomes really interesting is that if you're a payment or a fintech firm, you had to rely on a bank at the last mile, right? You could have a stablecoin, you could go through OTC desk, but if you really needed to effectuate, like, the through-and-through process, you still needed to rely on a bank, right? And so actually the disruption was as quick as the bank could actually adopt or take on fintech providers or payment service providers. To actually execute those services. And I think now, like for example, in the U.S., if you go and get an OCC charter and theoretically get a skinny master account, you actually can dictate the flow of what money and the service should look like. And I think that's being, in a lot of ways, underestimated, right? I think people look at it because it might take money from credit unions or something like that, but I actually think it changes how people can think about money and the pace at which. The flows can actually be put into the market and then adopted. And I think that is something that people are kind of thinking a little bit, an unlimited notion about, at least at the moment in time.

26:02我同意，大多數人其實不了解信用卡怎麼運作，資金在背後怎麼流動，內部機制是什麼。很多討論其實都過度炒作或偏離重點。我完全同意，世界一定會全面代幣化，大家沒有選擇，只能參與。我們必須以客戶為核心，思考我們帶來什麼價值，並聚焦討論重點，當然也要符合法規，因為這關係到全球資金流動。I agree that, like, most people don't know how credit cards technically work, how money really moves around behind the scenes. How the inneradium works. And so there's sometimes a lot of, I think, whether it's overhype or over discussions on topics that aren't really where we should go. So I completely agree. I think the world is completely going tokenized. I think that there is no choice or decision but to engage, and we need to keep customers in the center of everything we do and figure out what value are we bringing to whichever party in the equation and focus those discussions. And again, of course, in a regulated compliant way, because we are talking about global money movement of value.

26:44價值作業系統與金融產品整合

26:44她剛剛提到『價值』，這是很關鍵的詞。MoonPay 正在打造的是價值的作業系統，而不是金錢的作業系統。因為當你談穩定幣時，會把很多概念包在一起，首先是活存帳戶，然後是有收益的產品（儲蓄帳戶），再來是投資帳戶。這些障礙正在消失，未來都能整合在一個體驗裡。你的錢包將能存取各種金融產品。挑戰是怎麼符合法規推動採用。現在代幣化股票很有趣，大家不一定要買有執照的股票，只想要有曝險。如果你在阿根廷，有穩定幣，想投資 SpaceX，現在只要點一下就能做到。我們看到這些產品在境內外都在發展，未來會取得平衡。最令人興奮的是，實體資產主題已經走到真正使用者採用的階段，不只是穩定幣，所有金融產品最終都要上鏈。這對消費者來說很棒，因為以前要讓資金發揮效益很困難，很多人根本無法參與美股市場，現在只要按個鍵就能做到。I think she says value, and that's actually a really key term because when we talk about what we're doing at MoonPay, we're building the operating system of value, not the operating system of money. Because you're bundling a bunch of concepts when you start with stablecoins. First, it's a checking account, then you're moving into a yield-bearing product, that's your savings account, then you're going to move into an investment account, and— The barriers to all these things are getting removed and can collapse into one experience. So from your wallet, you're now going to have access to all of these various financial products. The challenge is, how do you do that in a regulatory compliant way? Where is the adoption going to take place? Like, you know, what we're seeing right now with tokenized stock is absolutely fascinating. You know, people aren't necessarily getting, you know, the licensed version of a stock. Like, they don't necessarily care. They just want exposure. If you're in Argentina, you've got a stablecoin and you want to get exposure to SpaceX, you're one click away now, right, from a stablecoin. And so we're seeing different flavors of these products onshore. We're seeing these products offshore. There's going to be a balance between both of those things. But what's so exciting is, I think this real asset theme. is now getting to a place that we're actually going to see real-world adoption beyond just, okay, we've got stablecoins working, but all these financial products ultimately need to come on-chain, which is phenomenal for a consumer because before it was really challenging to put your money to work. There were so many people that had no access to the U.S. equity market whatsoever, and now, you know, it's a touch of a button away. 100%.

28:10我們就到這裡吧，一切都會上鏈，你必須接受這個事實。給大家掌聲，謝謝。Well, we'll leave it there. Everything's going on-chain. You got to accept it. Let's give them a round of applause. Thank you.