BingX Kevin Lee 談市場新規則：留下來才是贏家，產業融合、專業也要有樂趣

0:00產業現實：不是每個人都能成功

0:00大家好，我是 Cointelegraph 的 Ciaran，今天和 BingX 的 Kevin Lee 一起來聊聊加密貨幣市場。這場討論叫做「市場新規則」，說不定最後 Kevin 會給我們一條新規則。不過我們先從現況開始，Kevin，你覺得現在加密市場最大的變化是什麼？Well, I'm with Kevin Lee. My name's Kieran. I'm from Cointelegraph. I'm with Kevin Lee from BingX, we're going to discuss the crypto markets today. Maybe you're going to give us a rule as well at the end. It is new rules of markets. So, but we'll start off with, I guess, you know, what are the biggest changes right now that we're seeing in the crypto markets from your perspective?

0:28大家都在講機構進場，但我想深入一點，甚至有點挑戰性。過去我們常說「we are all gonna make it」，但現在我覺得這句話不成立了。這次在新加坡，我邀請了很多產業內的朋友來參加活動，有些人已經不回訊息了，有些甚至連 Telegram 帳號都沒了。這就是現實，不是每個人都能成功。產業變得更現實、更成熟了。Yeah, well, okay. Everyone's been saying, like, institutional adoption, right? But, like, I want to go a little bit deeper and, like, going a little bit more controversial. We've been talking a lot about, like, we are all gonna make it. I think this is a proof that we're not all gonna make it. I would like, this is like a Token Singapore, as usual. I've been, like, sending invites to, like, people from the industry, connections, like, to our events. Like, some of them's, like, single tick, not replying anymore. Some of them's, like, not even have a Telegram account anymore. Right, so it's proof that it's like not everyone's gonna make it, all right? It's a fact. It's like being more realistic now.

1:10現在產業更現實了，也不要小看還留在這裡的人。這週在新加坡，大家還在努力，撐過過去 12 到 18 個月的熊市，能留下來都是有本事的。這就是現在的新敘事：如果你不努力、不拼搏，可能真的會被淘汰；但如果你還在這裡，恭喜你，這就是你的成就。Like it's just like the whole industry mature in a way that, and also like we shouldn't undermine people that like still around here this year. This week in Singapore, they still hustling. They pushed through the whole, you know, the bear market in the last, like, 12, 18 months. It's like we all earned the keep to be around. I think that's, like, that's the new narrative that we're having right now. It's like, well, if you're not pushing, if you're not hustling, you may not be able to make it. But if you are, if you're still around here, well, congratulations. Yeah, here we go.

1:44什麼才算「成功」？金錢以外的價值

1:44那現在在加密圈裡，「成功」到底是什麼？五年前大家覺得成功就是靠 altcoin 賺到百倍、千萬美金。現在呢？其實賺錢沒什麼不對，但那是舊規則。對我來說，如果你還留在這個產業，應該要思考除了賺錢之外，你想在這裡得到什麼？你相信這個技術嗎？你相信你的社群嗎？你是想推廣產業消息，還是有很強的商業應用？甚至只是寫本書發表也好。現在的「成功」是你有一個超越賺錢的目標。What does making it, though, look like right now in crypto today? Because five years ago, making it was, you know, making millions, you know, 100x on these altcoins. But what does making it look like today in crypto? We're talking about realistic, right? So, like, let's say that's nothing wrong, fundamentally wrong about making more money. If we want to make more money, sure. That's the old rules. That's not the new rules that we're talking about today. But also, I'm a little bit idealistic. I'll say, if you are actually still around in the industry, you want to think about outside of money, what do you want to get from here? What do you want to try to achieve, right? Do you believe in the technology? Do you believe in your community when you're like maybe you're an influencer, you want to, you know. Spread the news about what's happening, or you have, like, really strong business use case. You believe that this is gonna, like, make something more efficient or something like more better experience for someone. Or, like, even, like, just writing a book and publish it. Yeah, I mean, like, no one's making money for writing book these days. But that's how I would define making it, is like you have your goal outside of making money.

2:55新舊幣種輪動：Altcoin 季還會再來嗎？

2:55說到賺錢，大家還是很關心。最近 Bitcoin 走勢不錯，雖然今天早上有點回檔，但我們都只想談漲的時候（笑）。以前只要 Bitcoin 漲，大家就會期待 altcoin 也跟著起飛。現在大家都在討論「選擇性 altcoin 季」，不會再像以前一樣所有幣一起漲，而是某些領域特別強。你怎麼看？And, you know, just talking about making money because most people at Token, let's face it, are interested in making more money. I mean, when we talk around, you know, Bitcoin, which looking at the price, it's, you know, it's had a healthy little uptick recently. I think it had a drop earlier today slightly. We don't talk about the drops, yeah. We only talk about the wins. We'll talk about it. Up until this morning, it was looking all right, and— You know, when we look at that, and then, you know, previously we'd say, okay, Bitcoin's starting to have a nice little uptick, and then we look at altcoins. What does that look like today? I mean, you know, we hear people talk around selective altcoin seasons, and we're not going to see the same type of altcoin seasons where everything goes up at once. Now it's just going to be little sectors based on what the industry is feeling most bullish about. So what's your thoughts around that?

3:42我想再講得直接一點，很多人還在等下一波 altcoin 季。但回顧過去幾個週期，所謂的 altcoin 季，都是因為有新應用出現，像 NFT、DeFi、memecoin 等等。每次都是有新幣、新市值進來，才會帶動行情。就價格表現來說，現在 altcoin 要超越 Bitcoin 真的很難。除非又有新的應用、新的敘事出現，才有可能再來一波 altcoin 季。希望很快會有新東西出現。Again, I might go a little bit more controversial. Like, a lot of people still waiting for the next altcoin seasons. I would say, like looking at the last few cycles, right, the seasons actually happen because we have new use cases. Whether or not it's like, okay, NFTs, maybe it's like DeFi, maybe it's memecoin, right? There's a new... Injection of, like, new coins with new market caps that coming into the table, that makes the equation tilt in one way. I would say, on the record here, like purely on price actions, it's really tough for altcoins to outperform Bitcoins. Having said that, like going back to the points about technology, is someone... Smarter than me in this room, probably like all of you, may think about like a new use case about blockchain technology tomorrow or next week or next year, right? Then there will be a new influx of like, okay, new use case, new tokens coming in, and they all classify as altcoins. Then yeah, sure, altcoin season is back. So hopefully that would happen sometime soon.

4:50RWA、AI、資產整合：產業趨勢與使用者需求

4:50那你現在特別看好哪些領域？大家都在講 RWA、AI 與加密的結合，這些還會讓你興奮嗎？老實說，這些話題我已經有點無感了。我在傳統金融做了 15 年，五年前才進入加密圈。現在再講 RWA 代幣化真的沒什麼新意，大家都在談。但重點不是「另類投資」，而是怎麼讓資本更有效率，讓使用者可以在同一平台交易多種資產，無論是加密貨幣、股票、商品、外匯指數等，最好能一站式搞定，這才是重點。And what sectors, are there any particular sectors that you're Bullish on right now. Everyone's talking RWAs, AI and crypto, that intersection. What sparks excitement in Kevin? Oh, that's like very different questions. Like, it doesn't make me excited anymore. Like, oh, this is out of... I've been like in... Crypto's jaded you. Yeah, I've been, yeah, a little bit jaded already. But I... I've been in traditional finance for 15 years before I joined crypto five years ago. It's so unoriginal and uncreative to say tokenization of RWA. I know we have, like, so many panels about it already. Everyone's on it. It's not about, like, being, like, alternative investment. It's about, like, looking at— Both sides of the world together is to make your capital more efficient, with the users able to trade multiple asset class on the same platform. It's to make users having better access to everything. That which is what we are here about, right? Better access to everything, whether or not it's cryptocurrency, whether or not it's stock, commodity, FX indexes, and beyond, like whatever it is, we should have like one-stop shop for it. I think that's more important.

6:13比特幣四年週期還有意義嗎？

6:13今年大家又在討論比特幣四年週期。去年十月比特幣創高，接下來大部分時間都在熊市，最近才又回升。你覺得四年週期還有參考價值嗎？坦白說，我不太相信這種模式。統計學上有意義的樣本數要 15、30 以上，但大家只看四、五次減半就說有週期，這其實沒什麼意義。現實世界變化太快，可能下個月就打破這個模式了。四年週期是舊規則，現在應該拋開這種想法。Okay, now a question I want to ask you, Kevin, it's been, you know, quite a... A topic of discussion, especially this year. You know, last year in October we saw Bitcoin reach a high, and then, you know, most of this year we have seen a bear market for Bitcoin up until recently, where it's returned up and going up again, which is great. Is the four-year cycle still relevant for Bitcoin? Oh my God, you've been, like, setting me up to be controversial. Like, we didn't rehearse this, by the way. It's gonna be great for soundbites, right? Again, like, going back to my proposition is, like, you guys are all smart people and, like, probably smarter than I do. But we all learn statistics, right? What's, like, actually meaningful sample size is, like, what, like 15 or 30. But, like, there are people looking at— A pattern of four, five, like halving, and that's a pattern. I don't think that's a pattern. I think that's break. And that's, like, more important to, you know, looking at the real world is, like, what's actually happening. It's more than just the chart, right? You don't feed your narrative into the chart. You look at the real world and see, like, what's actually happening. Maybe it's happening next month and it breaks the pattern. Maybe there's like one more pattern before it breaks. I don't know. But I would say I don't look at the four-year cycle as, like, the rules. This is definitely the old rules, so, like, let's forget about that. Absolutely.

7:40零售使用者、支付與穩定幣的痛點

7:40那什麼會推動下一波散戶進場？以前是 altcoin 狂潮，最近則是社交交易。其實零售使用者很有趣，每個人需求都不同，有人只想穩定幣質押拿 4% 年化，有人要 500 倍槓桿賭身家（不是建議啦）。大家需求差異很大，有些人只是想把加密收入花掉，所以支付這塊很重要。怎麼讓加密資產更容易用於日常生活，這才是關鍵。And talking around what is actually going to drive the new retail investors to crypto. I mean, you know, previously, like we talked about before, we had altcoin season. It was all the mania around that and excitement. And recently we have seen social trading as well. I mean, in your opinion, what do you think is going to drive this next wave of retail adoption to crypto? Retail is, like, it's really interesting because, like— From my background, like institutions about, like, being having a standard, having, like, something that's consistent across the board. Retail, in a way that every one of you, every one of, like, the users in our communities, like, they're different. They have individual needs. They're looking for, you know, from, like, just, like, 4% yield on, like, stablecoin staking. To whatever 500x leverage just to, you know, gamble the saving. Not saying you should do it, not financial advice. But you have to recognize that it's like a spectrum of, like, different individual users. They want something. They may just want to, like, have access to spend their crypto earnings, right? So it's like how we talk a lot these days about payment. Maybe we can talk about it later as well. Payment, how do you get off-ramp? How do you connect with the real world and the daily life that would enable users and the community to, you know, just like having easier access for their life?

9:05談到支付和穩定幣，現在最大瓶頸是什麼？其實信用卡使用者有很多回饋，像 Amex 8% 現金回饋、機票點數等。穩定幣要怎麼超越信用卡、搶下消費者？其實還是要看應用場景。像新加坡、香港這種已開發市場，大家口袋裡就有五六種支付方式。但在某些國家，連最基本的美元存取、支付管道都很難。像我前陣子去越南換錢，機場匯差高達 10-12%，這時候如果能直接用加密支付就方便多了。這些地方才是真正有需求、有商業價值的場景。And when we talk around payments as well and, you know, stablecoins especially, like... What's the biggest bottlenecks that you still see within stablecoins right now? Because obviously, you know, people can use credit cards and go out and they're getting cashbacks and they're getting all these rewards. Like Amex is giving them, you know, 8% back on this, and they're getting, you know, flight vouchers and everything. So how does stablecoins come into that and maybe, you know, overtake the consumers that are using Credit cards and, you know, that type of spending. Yeah, I mean, like, we may have, like, it's going back again, like looking at the use cases, right? Like in Singapore, in Hong Kong, like we're so developed already, you can just, like, reach into your pocket. There's like five, six different ways to pay for the bill already. So we have looked at the world as a whole, like. What jurisdictions that they have, like, they have the needs of, like, even the basis, the most basic, sorry, basic needs of, like, having access to dollar or, like, just, like, payment, like, railway. Like, even for myself, right, I was in Vietnam, like, two months ago, I was like— That's, that's on me. I was, like, trying to get some Vietnamese dong at the airport exchange. I thought I got robbed. I was looking at, like, why is, like, I'm short money? I was like, yeah, the spread is like 10%, 12% spread. I was like, look. That's like the easiest solution, just like in my pocket, which is like crypto and then like all this payment directly locally. It's like, yeah, that's like a legitimate use case. And we see it maybe not in Singapore, maybe not. We have to see, like maybe Argentina with all the like hyperinflation still happening, maybe in some other like jurisdiction where like they don't have access to, you know, the basis. I hate to say it, like, but. You know, bank to unbank, the cliche, but that's the actual need, and that's the real business use case.

11:08使用者體驗與支付介面：穩定幣普及的關鍵

11:08那你覺得現在穩定幣的使用介面，對一般不懂加密的使用者來說夠友善嗎？其實讓已經在圈內的人用穩定幣很簡單，難的是怎麼讓圈外人也願意用。就算我們自己轉穩定幣給朋友，還是會三重檢查錢包地址，怕打錯。這也是為什麼產業一直在跟 Visa、Mastercard、Google Pay、Apple Pay 合作，讓技術門檻被包裝起來，讓一般人也能無痛使用。到時候你用 Google Pay，不管背後是法幣、加密貨幣還是其他貨幣，都無所謂。And when you're looking around as well, do you think that the interface on just platforms for stablecoins are good enough now to just get, you know, your average mum and dad investors that don't really know much? Around crypto, they're not really that interested, but converting them, right, is the hardest point. Because using getting people that are already into crypto on stablecoins is the easy part, right? But it's getting people that might not necessarily be trading crypto or be around crypto to get into stablecoins. Yeah, I wouldn't even say, like, for us would be easy, like. How many of us, like, been still, like, sending, like, stable to your friend and still, like, have to triple check the wallet address to make sure you don't have typo, right? I scared. I don't trust myself. But I think that's why, like, our industry as a whole has, like, been working with a lot of, like, okay, what about the, like, the payment card company, Visa, Mastercard? What about, like, Google Pay, Apple Pay, right? They are the ones that encapsulate the whole, you know, the technological hurdles so that their own men and my own men will be able to use it without, like, having to actually figure out the wallet address. And that's what we've been trying to do. And then by that time, it will be agnostic. It doesn't matter if your Google Pay account is actually... With fiat or crypto or, like, whatever fancy currency that you have.

12:30華爾街進場？機構與加密的雙向靠攏

12:30大家常說「華爾街要來了」，你覺得華爾街真的進來了嗎？其實這幾年大家都在講，機構終究會來，但不只是他們靠近我們，我們也要靠近他們。機構不是比較聰明，只是流程更完善，能把個人失誤隱藏起來，讓公司不會出事（笑）。但他們也有很多限制，比如 24/7 交易對他們來說技術上很難做到，這也是為什麼他們要學我們。但我們也能從他們的合規、流程學到東西，這是一個雙向交流。Let's talk around institutions as well, because one phrase that's been said a lot throughout this year is that, well, and the last couple of years, is Wall Street's coming. Wall Street's coming to crypto. In your opinion, has Wall Street come to crypto? Where is Wall Street right now with crypto? What's the reservations that they have towards crypto still? Yeah, we've been seeing it for like so many years now, right? We've been seeing it for five, six years now. They will eventually come for sure, but in a way that it's not only they coming closer to us, we have to come closer to them as well. But also don't think of— Institution, as, like, people like smarter than, like, I was there, I know you guys are definitely smarter. They just have better process to, you know, hide the mistake, individual mistakes, so that, you know, the firm will still survive. But, like, joke aside, it's like they still have, like, fundamental... Either, like, limitation or, like, overhead. Like, for example, it will be so hard for them to actually have 24/7 trading because technologically, I know, because I was there, it's impossible to do it with the current infrastructure. And that's why they have to come closer to us. However, the lack of, like, compliance, regulations, and, like, all the, like, the process and procedures. They've been doing better. We can learn from them, so it's like a two-way dialogue for us.

14:02資金來源與比特幣的角色轉變

14:02那現在加密圈的資金主要來自哪裡？其實很多是「老錢」，他們在找另類投資，這些錢很穩定。這些人買了 Binance 或 Bitcoin，往往放著不動，比我們還有鑽石手。對他們來說，現在不投資未來就被淘汰，這是圈子裡的共識。這些「老錢」現在把比特幣當作數位黃金，不再期待兩週內十倍，而是當作資產配置的分散工具，像 Cathie Wood、MicroStrategy 那樣，可能 5% 配黃金、5% 配比特幣，降低風險、提升整體績效。Where would you say then the most money right now is coming from for crypto? Ooh, that's a really good question. I think there's a lot of old money. There's a lot of old money. They're looking for, like, alternative investment. And they are stable money, right? I mean, there are a lot of, like, liquidity in our ecosystem right now, but they'll be, like, just, like, jumping from one side to another side. I've seen, I've dealt with, like, a lot of old money, like, and not old people, old money people. Does it make sense? Yeah, old money people. They will just— Binance or Bitcoin, they have stronger diamond hands than any of us. They buy, they just like forget about it. And they just not only just like because of they believe into the future of our industry, but it's just easier for them to get into their conversation because like at that level, they are like narrative going on. It's like if you're not investing in the futures. You're not part of this circle anymore. You're getting left behind. So I think that's happening. That's good money. That's, it's almost like a blue ocean that we haven't actually really, like, touched on at this moment. And these old money people, that's what we're referring to them as, old money people, are they seeing Bitcoin now as Digital gold as it goes, or are they still seeing it as a risk asset in some way? That's a really good question. It's just like no one's, I don't think anyone here will be looking at Bitcoin as like, oh, Bitcoin is going to go 10x in two weeks' time. It's like it growing so big that it has become more like a diversification of your portfolio, which is true, right? I mean. That's, again, that's no financial advice, but this is not financial advice. This is more like mathematically and empirically proven that if you diversify your portfolio, it helps either your return or your risk. I think that's like, it's not me, right? Everyone's saying it. Cathie Wood been saying it, like MicroStrategy, may not like, it's like all in Bitcoin, so on the other side of the aisles, but. That's what they're doing. They're just like thinking maybe they will put 5% in gold, but also 5% in Bitcoin, just because things may move in different direction with different risk profile, but it would help the overall portfolio.

16:28比特幣成熟化與市場新規則

16:28比特幣越來越大、越成熟，未來對宏觀經濟或地緣政治事件的反應會不會變小？我認為一定會。現在我們提供更精選的資訊給社群，這已經不是單純看 K 線預測價格的時代了。要看宏觀、看事件驅動，像是誰說了什麼（例如Donald Trump），這些都會影響市場，但你在 K 線圖上看不到。這也是傳統金融人一直以來的做法，有 Bloomberg Terminal、即時新聞，現在我們也在把這套帶給使用者。And then do you think just the fact that Bitcoin is becoming bigger, it's becoming more mature as well, that it's going to react less and less to macroeconomic... Events. I mean, like, you know, only a few years ago we'd see something happen and, you know, geopolitical events as well, and Bitcoin is tanking. You know, like, do you see that changing over the course of the coming years now as it matures? A hundred percent. So that's what we're trying to do as well. It's just like we provide more curated news to, like, generally to the community. It's just like— Look, this is not the cycle. This is the new rules. Like, we can tap on this. We're not in the cycle anymore. We can just look at candle charts of, like, a random token, and we can make price prediction anymore. We have to, you know, get into the macro, get into, you know, sometimes, like, also not macro, but, like, event-driven, like. Who is saying what? Like, is like Trump saying something like that would, like, move the market, or is it like someone else? That is something that's, like, to do with the new, like, the real world that you would not be able to see it in the candle charts. And that's how the traditional finance people... Been, like, operating on as well. That's why they have Bloomberg Terminal. That's why they have, like, all the news coming in, and they have to make the decisions. And then now what we're doing is, like, we're trying to replicate the same and give it out to our users.

17:5824/7 交易與交易所未來樣貌

17:58再談 24/7 交易，現在股票、商品都能透過加密基礎設施全天候交易，這會怎麼改變交易所的角色？我很自豪可以跟銀行圈的老朋友炫耀我們 24/7 交易，這是最實際的應用。市場能在週末、假日即時反應，大家能更有效率地管理風險。這也是傳統市場想學習的地方，像紐約證交所的朋友現在也快做到 每週 5 天、每天 23 小時甚至 24 小時交易。我其實不只支持加密產業，只要整個金融業變得更有效率，我都樂見其成。Amazing. Now, we spoke about this earlier, but I want to touch on it. In a different light around 24/7 trading as well, because as, you know, equities and commodities are able to be traded 24/7 through crypto infrastructure, how does that change how an exchange is perceived, and what does that make an exchange look like in the coming years? Yeah, I mean, that's definitely... I look good. I can still brag about it with my old friends in banking. It's like, yay, we do 24/7. That's, but having said that, that's the most realistic use case, and we have seen it more than a couple of times already. It's like how our market will be able to react during weekends, like on a Sunday morning, on like a Friday night, right? We are more efficient in a way that— We can address what's happening in the market with fair values that everyone will be able to, you know, manage the risk. I think that's something that we try to do. But at the same time, this is where, as I said previously, traditional market want to come a little bit closer as well. That's why. My friends from New York Stock Exchange probably be around as well. They're doing 23.5, maybe 24.5, like really soon as well. But yeah, I mean, like, I'm happy. I'm not, like, inherently have to support just the crypto industry, right? I'm happy. With the whole financial industry as a whole, either way we grow and make things more efficient, I'm happy.

19:31傳統金融人眼中的加密圈

19:31你來自傳統金融，還會跟以前的朋友聚會，他們現在怎麼看加密貨幣？其實他們一直很有信心，早在 2016、17 年就開始投資。交易員最會聞錢味，這是個好資產早就進場了。現在變化是，已經不只是個人交易，機構也想進來，像基金、資產代幣化、ETF 等，雙方越來越靠近。其實我們本質上都是一群聰明又愛創新的同溫層。I always find it interesting because you do come from a traditional finance background, is talking to people that are now in crypto that were in TradFi, because obviously you don't ditch your mates in TradFi, like you still hang out with them and what their perception of crypto is now and what the general sentiment is. So just having, you know, been around your TradFi mates, are you noticing a change in the sentiment? To crypto, or they still kind of? Actually, they have, like, a lot of strong convictions. Like from, like, even early days, like 2016, 17s, like the good things about, like, traders is, like, they smell money. They sniff, like, money and all other things, but, like, money at the most. So they know that this is... A good asset class, they've been investing really early. But what's actually changing right now is like, all right, it's not about, like, individuals, like traders, like PA account anymore. It's about, like, the institution want to come in. They smell the money as well, like what they can do, like, okay, like money funds, like tokenization. How they can access to the both world. They may want to do, like tokenized—not tokenized, but like ETF is the other way around, right? They want to have a vehicle for our, like, asset class as well. So again, like both sides getting closer is something that we like. This year I'm doing Jack. Next year I'm probably doing Tides as well. Like, we're going closer in a way that we're feeling that culturally and fundamentally, we're pretty much the same group of people, just like being smart and innovate.

21:10迷因幣的產業影響與文化價值

21:10傳統金融圈常把加密圈當賭場，迷因幣也讓這印象更深。你覺得迷因幣對產業是正面還是負面？其實我對迷因幣沒特別感覺，但我很重視 meme 文化。像 Richard Dawkins 1976 年的書就提到 meme，這是連結人類文化的東西，像歌、電影台詞、旋律等。這種文化連結是有價值的，至於能不能反映在迷因幣上，就是市場試驗。也許我們還會再回到原點，思考怎麼把 meme 文化用得更好。Yeah, it's funny because I think sometimes TradFi, they look at crypto and then— I guess the reputation of it still being a casino to some extent, and the meme coins from its earlier days, and it's obviously changed so much. And then looking at that then, do you... Do you see meme coins and what they were to crypto being a net positive or net negative for the industry? And, you know, there was a big adoption side to meme coins as well. All right, so that might sidetrack things a little bit. Like, I don't have a strong feeling or, like, an opinion on meme coins, but I have a strong feeling about memes. Because I did read the book. I don't know if, like, any of you has actually read the original books about, like, Richard Dawkins, about from 1976. It's almost 50 years ago when, like, the face, like the name memes being coined. But that means everything in our life that's not genes, like it's not in our DNA. It could be a song, it could be a movie, like phrases you remember in a movie or songs that you remember, a melody. That's actually big. It's culturally connect people. It's almost like a connective memory that we resonate together. So I think that's something is here to stay. There is a value there that may or may not be able to reflect on meme coins. But yeah, that's like, it's almost like a try and error, right? It's like we see value in some meme. Is it able to, like, make it, like, tradable? That's something that we want to discuss, like, last cycle, and now just, like, we may go back to, you know. Ground zero and work it again is like, is there any way we can utilize, like, more memes?

22:57未來的贏家交易所與市場新規則

22:57你覺得未來什麼樣的加密交易所會勝出？我覺得名字要 B 開頭 X 結尾（笑）。但認真說，產業一定會整併，這在每個產業都發生過，會從 Big Eight 變 Big Four。重點是找到自己的利基市場，不能什麼都想做，否則樣樣通樣樣鬆。現在正是每家交易所應該聚焦、服務自己客群的時候。Now, Kevin, what does a winning crypto exchange look like to you in the coming years? Winning crypto exchange? Yeah, what's the crypto exchange that's going to come out on top in the next— Yeah, I think that the prerequisite is, like, the exchange, we have to start with a letter B. I can name a few, and hopefully, like, end with a letter X. But no, I think inevitably we will see consolidation, and it's probably already happening. But that's happening in every single industry as well. Like, either accounting firm, we start with like Big Eight, and now it's like... That's like Big Five, and now it's Big Four. Same with banking, J.P. Morgan Chase. Now J.P. Morgan Chase, there's consolidations to make things a little bit more efficient in terms of operation and money making. And before that, I think it's about, like, how you find your niche, right? You can't be an exchange and trying to be good at everything. If you're an exchange, you want to do your own stablecoin, your own L1, your own AI, that's good that you have everything, but like master of none, that will be tougher in the longer run. So, like every single exchange, I think it is the right time here in this cycle to find a niche to actually cater for their own clients.

24:18市場新規則：留下來、互學、享受樂趣

24:18最後，這場叫「市場新規則」，你有什麼規則想分享嗎？我覺得第一，不要再說「we are all gonna make it」，能留下來的都是靠自己努力。記得你為什麼還在這產業、你帶來什麼價值。第二，不要害怕機構進場，我們各有優勢，雙方可以互相學習、越來越靠近。最後，這產業可以很專業，也要記得享受樂趣，尤其現在熊市快結束了，大家要記得開心。這就是我對市場新規則的看法。Now, before we wrap up, this panel is called The New Rules of Markets, and we haven't really talked on rules. So, do you have any rules? Maybe someone here is watching, they want to know what's the rules of markets today in Kevin Lee's eyes. Is there a particular rule that you live by when approaching a market? All right, so, so that's a mix of new rules and old rules I've been talking about as well, or like almost like a summary. First thing is, like, I definitely don't feel like we should talk about like we're all gonna make it anymore. Please, like, you guys have earned it. There's a reason why you're here, and like some of the people that was here last year not here anymore. And remember that reason why you, like, having inputs to this industry, and that's why you are important and why you're coming back next year, or like to New York. Yeah. So, new rules is like you earn your keep of being here. Second is like don't be, like, afraid or scared or, like, impose a stream jump. In front of the institutional guys, we have our pros and cons, right? We learn from each other. It's not like institutional come in and just, like, just absorb our industry. I think it's like a process of, like, we learn from each other and getting a little bit closer and a little bit more overlap. And the last one. It's kind of overrules, but I want to re-illustrate. It's like we are in an industry that we can be professional, but also have fun at the same time. I think that's the key. I think that's the thing that we all need to remember, especially now we're getting out of, sort of getting out of the bear market. We should still have fun while we are here. That's a great rule to wrap up the panel. Well, that's time, guys. Please thank Kevin Lee. All right. Thank you. Thanks again, everyone.