Ledger 消費者服務副總裁 JF Rochet：代幣化的第二波浪潮與資安新挑戰

0:00開場與產業機會

0:00大家好。我覺得這是整個會場裡最舒服的舞台，希望你們都坐得很舒服，也像我們一樣，今天在 TOKEN2049 過得很愉快。我很高興能在這裡代表 Ledger，不知道現場有沒有人已經擁有 Ledger 裝置？如果有的話可以舉個手。看來還不少人。我今天想提醒大家幾件事，這場演講會談到安全性，但同時也會談到機會。為什麼？因為現在有很多因素正在匯聚，帶來一個前所未有的機會，但同時也有前所未有的資安風險。這就是今天的主題：到底發生了什麼事？Hi everyone. I think this is the most comfortable stage in the whole venue, so I hope you're well seated and that you had, as we do, a very good day here at Token. Very happy to be here. Representing Ledger. I don't know if some of you do own a Ledger device. Maybe you can raise your hand if it's the case. Okay, quite some. I'm here to remind ourselves of a few things. It's going to be a presentation about security. But it's going to be a presentation also about opportunity. Why? Because there's a convergence of multiple factors that coming together are bringing us here for an opportunity that I think is certainly unprecedented. But at the same time, with a level of risk regarding information security. Cybersecurity, that is also unprecedented. So that's the topic today. What's going on?

1:18代幣化的起點與金融市場變革

1:18現在，無論是對機構還是對個人，都有一些事情正在發生。在 Ledger，我的職責是管理消費者業務。我有一位同事負責管理企業業務，因為安全性的問題、證明你的意圖、證明你真的想做某件事，這些問題不僅適用於你、你的專案、你的機構，同時也適用於你這個個人。如果你觀察目前的情況，我認為我們才剛剛進入資產代幣化的起點。這讓我想起電信產業。當 Skype 出現時，電信是一個老舊、昂貴且複雜的產業。事實上，當你思考個人理財、思考股票市場時，這種情況到今天依然差不多。為什麼股票市場只能在平日的早上九點到下午五點開放呢？Something is happening for both institutions and for individuals. At Ledger, my role is to manage the consumer business. I have a counterpart managing the enterprise business because the question of security, of proving your intent, proving that you want to do something, is a question that applies to you, to your projects, to your institutions, but also to you as individuals. If you look at what's going on, I think we are just at the beginning of tokenization. It reminds me telecom industry. When Skype came, telecom was an old industry, very expensive, very complex. And actually, when you think about personal finance, when you think about stock markets, it's still pretty much the case today. Why should stock markets be open from 9 to 5 on the weekdays?

2:20為什麼不能全天候 24 小時運作？為什麼不能在週末進行？為什麼這件事沒有全球性的機會和全球性的使用者存取？所以，這只是一個運動的開始，而在座的許多人都正在參與這個專案，致力於讓它變得更簡單、更容易讓市場上的使用者接觸。Why not 24/7? Why not on weekends? Why is there no global opportunity and global access for this? So this is just the beginning of this movement, and many of you here are working on this project to make it easier, make it more accessible to market customers.

2:43代幣化與服務生態系

2:43所以，代幣化以及在公有區塊鏈上進行的代幣化，這件事現在正在發生。第二個步驟，就是圍繞這個代幣化所產生的各種服務。如果你考慮到貨幣的代幣化，穩定幣無疑是第一種形式。而且如果你放眼全球，不只是西方或美國，這越來越等同於一種貨幣、等同於金錢。我記得，因為我曾經在那裡工作過，電子貨幣剛開始的時候。電子貨幣當時有點像是一種特別的產物。電子貨幣有它自己的法規。但現在，我們每個人身上、手機裡都有電子貨幣。我們在銀行帳戶裡也有不是電子貨幣的錢，但那是什麼？我們也說不清楚。So tokenization and tokenization on public blockchain that matters is something happening now. The second step is, is what's happening with services around this tokenization. If you consider tokenization of money, stablecoins are certainly the first form. And if you look around the world, not only Western U.S., but globally, this is more and more equivalent to a currency and to money. I remember, because I worked there, the beginning of e-money. And e-money was a bit of a special animal. E-money has its own legislation. But today, all of us have e-money in our pocket, on our mobile. We also have money that is not e-money on our bank accounts, but which is what? We don't know.

3:47我們現在所看到的穩定貨幣或代幣化貨幣，和日常貨幣之間的混淆，正在加劇，並且在幾年內將會完全融合。所以，個人理財，從消費者端來看，機構金融也正在朝向代幣化發展。隨著這個趨勢，你會看到有相當多的服務會建立在這個基礎之上。The confusion between stable money or tokenized money as we see it today, and money, everyday money. is progressing and will be total in a few years. So personal finance, from a consumer side, institutional finance is moving to tokenization. And with that, you get a relatively large number of services that come on top of this.

4:11這些服務有哪些？你可以用一個代幣換另一個、投資、做投資組合、質押、借貸。我們剛宣布在 Ledger 錢包裡和 Morpho、Yield.xyz 合作推出 Bitcoin 借貸功能。你也可以用卡片存取你的加密貨幣或穩定幣，和整個金融生態系互通。這一切都很棒，個人和機構金融都在往區塊鏈上的代幣格式前進。So the services, what are they? You can exchange a token against another. You can invest. In a portfolio, you can yield your portfolio, you can lend, you can borrow. We are just announcing the launch of Bitcoin lending, Bitcoin borrow, sorry, product inside the Ledger wallet in partnership with Morpho and Yield.xyz. You can access your crypto or your stable through cards. Interoperable with the entire financial ecosystem. So all this is great news, and actually all of personal finance, as all of institutional finance, is moving to a token format on the blockchain.

4:54Agentic 經濟與新支付型態

4:54另一個重要因素是，這也是代理人（agent）最愛的支付方式。如果你問你的 AI agent，今天最喜歡怎麼收付錢？穩定幣一定是首選。所以 agentic 經濟和代幣化正在匯流，這才剛開始。看起來一切都很美好，但問題也開始浮現：這樣真的安全嗎？The other important factor is, okay, this is also the favorite form factor for agents. If you ask your agents, and it was said in other... Conferences today, what is your favorite way of paying or getting paid? Stable will come first in the picture. So agentic is also in the convergence with the tokenization, and it's just the beginning of tokenization. So everything looks fine, everything is great, but questions start to arise. And the type of question we can wonder about is, okay, is it secure?

5:32資安風險與產業警訊

5:32如果你有在看新聞，如果你有注意到現在 AI 帶來的變化，攻擊的次數、攻擊的成本、攻擊的「Uber 化」——也就是攻擊、詐騙、駭客行為的服務化——我覺得我們現在能安穩地坐在這個會場裡是件好事。因為這些現象真的很可怕，而且應該要讓我們這個產業裡的每一個人都感到害怕。那麼，當你感到害怕的時候，你可以做什麼？你可以選擇忽略這個問題。我認為，從我開始在資訊產業工作以來，這個產業其實很擅長忽略某些問題。想想看釣魚詐騙（phishing）。我想釣魚詐騙已經存在超過 25 年了。這裡有誰因為釣魚詐騙而改變了自己的習慣嗎？但即便如此，還是有人會掉進陷阱，甚至是那些自認為很懂的人。And if you read the news, if you see what is happening also through AI, the number of attacks, the cost of attacks, the form of uberization of attacks, of scams, of hacks, I think it's good we are well seated in this room. Because that's pretty scary, and that should scare all of us in this industry. So what can you do when you're scared? You can ignore the problem. And I think, having worked in tech since tech exists, we've been pretty good at ignoring some problems. Think about phishing. I think there's been 25 years plus of phishing. Who in this room has changed their habits because they are phishing? And still, people fall into the traps, and people who think who are in the know.

6:27產業當時是怎麼做的呢？Asky，這才剛開始而已。過了25年，這樣的回應並不恰當。但Web2當時所面臨的關鍵問題，和今天我們所面臨的，完全不同。What did the industry for that? Asky, it's just the beginning. 25 years after, it's not a proper response. But what was at stake in Web2? Has nothing to do with what is at stake today.

6:41現在一切都在代幣化，公有鏈勝出，AI agent 可以直接存取你的資產、投資、支付，這讓安全的重要性大幅提升。現在的資安情勢幾乎是 Armageddon（世界末日），攻擊者佔上風，但我們卻把越來越多數位資產暴露在風險中。好消息是，我們其實可以做些什麼來改善。The fact that everything is getting tokenized, that public blockchains are winning, that there is agents accessing your wealth, your investments, your payments, is completely changing the weight you put in the balance against your security practice. So on one side, you get a security Armageddon, where honestly, attackers have the advantage today, and on the other side, we are trusting more and more digital assets that are at risk. The good news is that there's something you can do about it.

7:18Ledger 的安全解決方案

7:18Ledger 這 12 年來一直致力於打造專門解決這個問題的硬體裝置。為什麼？因為加密簽章是公有鏈代幣化的完美解方，但前提是你不能用原本就不為安全設計的手機或電腦來做這件事。這些裝置本來就不是為了安全而生，我們每天都看到這個問題，但很多人還是沒意識到，不能只靠這些裝置來保護機構級或個人資產的安全。And this is what we've been working on at Ledger for now almost 12 years, which is to create devices, hardware, that are made. Exactly, to cope with this problem. Why? Because cryptographic signature is a solution that is a perfect solution for the tokenization on public blockchain, as long as it's not done on devices that are not made for that. Phones and computers were not built for security. We see it every day, and still, we don't always realize that we cannot just rely on this for the security of institutional grade and for our personal security with our personal assets.

8:08Ledger 到底是什麼？有些人知道，因為這是存放加密貨幣最安心的硬體。去年我們推出了 Nano Gen 5，就是你看到這個有螢幕的小裝置。這個螢幕是可信顯示器，跟你手機的螢幕不一樣，它跑在安全元件和專屬作業系統上。這個螢幕不會騙你，你看到什麼就是區塊鏈上會發生的事。我們把螢幕做大，讓你能清楚檢查交易內容。安全是大家的責任，我們歡迎任何專案來整合這種安全性，不論是企業還是消費者端。What is Ledger made of? Some of you know it because it's a good way to... Store your crypto to a hardware to feel safe. Last year, we've introduced Nano Gen 5, which is this little device that you see here with a screen. The screen is a trusted display. What is a trusted display? It's a display that is not the display of your phone, as simple as that. It's running on a secure element. It's running on a dedicated OS. And so it's a screen that doesn't lie to you, because what you see on this screen is what will happen on the blockchain. We've made it larger so you can check your transactions. You can see exactly what you're doing. The responsibility is a shared responsibility. We are open to any projects that want to leverage this type of security, both on the enterprise side and on the consumer side.

9:08你可以把 Ledger 整合到你的解決方案或平台，不只透過我們的 Ledger Wallet app，也可以直接在你的應用裡用。這就是我們推動安全平台的意義，讓 Web3 各種專案都能整合這種安全性。隨著世界資產數位化，未來所有事情都會發生在手機、電腦和線上。You can integrate Ledger to your solution and to your platform, making it available not only through the application that we've built, the Ledger Wallet app, but through your own application. So that's the sense of us. Fostering the idea of a security platform that can be integrated throughout Web3 in every single project. And progressively, as there's this convergence of the world asset moving to digital, to everything that will be happening on mobile, on computers, and online.

9:46安全整合與 Agentic 應用

9:46你可以掃這個 QR code，了解怎麼把 Ledger 安全性整合進你的專案。你會受益於一個獨立裝置，讓用戶在上面認證、驗證交易、授權資金移動。這不只適用於個人，也適用於你的 agent。因為只有把金鑰隔離在像這樣的裝置裡，agentic 結合區塊鏈和加密安全才真的安全。否則你沒辦法信任 agent 不會出錯或做出你不期望的事，因為 agentic 是機率性的，但硬體是決定性的，這就是我們說的「原子復仇」——專用硬體的回歸，終於成為你和你專案的解方。So, you can scan this QR code. And discover how you can integrate the Ledger security into your project. You will benefit from a separate device on which people authenticate, on which people validate transactions, on which people authorize the movement of money. And this is applicable to you as individual, but it's also applicable to your agents, because agentic. Coupled with blockchain and cryptographic security, with the keys gapped into a device like this, is finally safe. Otherwise, you cannot trust your agent from not being intoxicated, from the agent getting a little bit beyond what you want to expect, because it's probabilistic. This is deterministic. This is hardware. This is what we call the revenge of the atom, the comeback of dedicated hardware that is finally a solution for you and your projects.

10:46產業合作與 Ledger 新動態

10:46所以我們今天在這裡。我們也要帶來一些比嚇大家安全議題更樂觀的消息，儘管我們認為，對於我們這個產業的每一個人來說，這是我們的責任。要意識到我們需要解決方案。因此，我們帶來了與聖安東尼奧馬刺隊的精彩合作，推出了特別版，你實際上可以在Ledger的攤位上打籃球，來放鬆一下對於安全世界末日的想像。所以，這是特別版。今天我還想說的另一件事是，有些人一直在問：那要怎麼更進一步呢？我們去年已經發表了這個裝置，也發表了連接功能。你去年就可以把Ledger按鈕整合到你的應用程式裡。So we are here today. We are also here to announce more optimistic things than scaring everybody with a security story, even though we believe it's our responsibility for all of us in this industry. To realize that we need solutions. So we came with a fabulous partnership with the San Antonio Spurs, with a special edition, and you can actually play basketball to relax on the idea of the security Armageddon at the Ledger booth. So, special edition. The other thing that I want to say today is that some people have been asking. But okay, how can go further? We announced this device last year. We announced the connectivity. You can integrate a Ledger button to your application last year.

11:35每年，我們都會在巴黎舉辦一場會議或活動，應該說比較像這樣的形式，地點就在Ledger的總部，我們會在那裡宣布許多事項。關於使用者體驗的問題，還有使用Ledger裝置時的困難度，這確實是一個合理的問題。所以我們會宣布一些我今天還不會透露的內容。不過，如果你人在巴黎或剛好經過，歡迎你來參加，我們誠摯邀請大家來參加這個在我們總部舉辦的活動。如果無法親自到場，也請掃描這個QR碼或來我們的攤位。我們會進行現場直播，而且我認為會有一些真正突破性的內容。Every year, we run a conference or an event, let's call it more like this, in Paris, in the headquarters of Ledger, where we announce a number of things. The question of UX, the question of how difficult it is. To use a Ledger device on top of what you're doing is a legitimate question. So we'll be announcing things that I won't announce today. But you're welcome if you're in Paris or if you pass by, come and you're all invited to this event that is taking place in our headquarters. Otherwise, do scan this QR code or come to our booth. It will be live streamed, and there will be, I think, really breakthrough things.

12:14結語：安全是產業的未來

12:14這應該會進一步邀請你們善用 Ledger 的安全性，應用在你們的軟體、你們的專案上，造福消費者，造福你們的公司、你們的組織，我認為也會造福整個產業。因為我們有能力改變世界，但如果我們讓現狀的安全標準、現有的安全情勢持續下去，這是不會發生的。這就是現在的情況。所以我要感謝大家的聆聽。讓我們一起採取行動，不要忽視這個問題。不要再說，「喔，又有釣魚攻擊了」，然後就忽略問題。我們必須正面迎擊。我們在這裡就是為了你們，願意和你們一起努力。所以請帶著你們的想法來，讓我們一起討論，看看要怎麼把這件事推向下一個層次。That should invite you further to leverage the Ledger security for your applications, for your projects, to the benefit of consumers, to the benefit of your companies, your entities, and I think to the benefit of this industry. Because we can change the world, but it's not going to happen if we leave it in the security standard, in the security situation. That is the situation of today. So I thank you all for your attention. Let's do something about it. Let's not ignore the problem. Let's not do another, Oh, there's phishing. Let's ignore the problem. We need to tackle it. We are here for you, to work with you. So come, come with your ideas. Let's discuss, and let's see how we take it to the next level.

12:58因為如果我們在使用者體驗上多花一點心力解決這個問題，這個世界就會屬於我們。所以非常感謝大家，祝你們今天在新加坡過得愉快，我們巴黎見。Because if we resolve this problem with a bit of efforts on UX, The world is ours. So thank you very much, and I wish you a very good today here in Singapore, and see you all in Paris.