OKX Star Xu 與 Cuomo：智慧時代的市場新格局

0:00開場與嘉賓介紹

0:00各位朋友，這場討論將非常精彩，我們要聊聊如何打造適合智慧時代的市場。剛剛 Andrew 做了很棒的開場介紹。我非常高興能邀請到 OKX 創辦人 Star Xu 一起參與。順帶一提，也許你們對 Star 不是很熟悉，除了他在 OKX 的角色外，他其實是一位超級跑者。去年他每天大約跑十公里，總共跑了超過五千公里。等下聊完加密貨幣，Star 也要給我們一些跑步的建議。這主題我們應該再開一場，第一步就是要買雙好鞋。沒錯，這是我該做的第一件事。Guys, we're going to have a lot of fun in this session discussing what builds markets for the intelligence age. Andrew just gave a great introduction. I'm very, very happy to have Star Xu, the founder of OKX, join us. By the way, you might not know much about Star. You know him for his role at OKX, but he's actually a big runner. Last year, he was running about ten kilometers a day. He ran more than five thousand kilometers. So after talking about crypto, you need to give us some running tips too. That's another session we should do. Get a good pair of shoes first. Yeah, that's the first thing I should do.

0:44當然，還有 Cuomo 前州長也加入我們。Andrew 剛剛提到他的成就，但有個有趣的事實是，Cuomo 州長在忙碌之餘，最大的興趣是修復老車，尤其是 Corvette。現場如果有車迷，他可是專家，也許這主題也能再開一場。今天在 OKX 主舞台，Star，你在 2013 年創辦 OKX，這些年發生了很多事。你昨天才剛完成新一輪融資，還有和 ICE 交易所的合資案。你當初有想過會走到今天這一步嗎？Of course, Governor Cuomo is also joining us. Andrew just mentioned all his achievements, but a fun fact about Governor Cuomo is that when he's not busy with everything he does now, his passion is restoring old cars, especially Corvettes. For all the car lovers in the room, he's the expert. Maybe we can do another session on that too. There's a lot we can do. Star, I have to say, today we're on the OKX stage. You launched OKX in 2013. A lot has happened since then. You just closed another funding round yesterday, and there was the joint venture with ICE. Did you ever imagine back in 2013 that we'd get to where we are today?

1:24產業韌性與危機回顧

1:24其實我從沒想過。2013 年剛創業時，比特幣對我們來說就像魔法一樣。現在比特幣 ETF 和市值都很驚人，但那時我常跟朋友分享一個小故事。當時我還是工程師，曾在一個線上遊戲平台下注 500 美元，也就是 500 顆比特幣來玩遊戲。這些年我們慢慢學習、實踐、在這產業裡打拼，也經歷了很多痛苦和不確定。最重要的是，這個產業總是會遇到很多問題和危機，但總能自然找到解決方法。Oh, you know, I never imagined it. Back in 2013, when we started the company, Bitcoin was like a magic pill for us. Today, yes, Bitcoin ETFs and the market cap are amazing, but at that time I used to tell a lot of my friends a secret story. There was an online gaming platform, and I was an engineer then, so every time I bet $500, which was 500 Bitcoin to play a game in 2013. Over the years, we've slowly learned, practiced, and built in this industry, and we've gone through a long period of suffering, pain, and uncertainty. The most important thing for me is that there are always a lot of problems and crises in the industry, but the industry always finds a natural way to solve them.

2:29每次解決完問題，產業就會變得更好。像 MT Gox、FTX 這些事件都帶來巨大災難，但我們每次都能一起走過，變得比以前更強大。我認為這背後有個核心原因，讓產業和我們這些參與者都非常有韌性。After we solve the problem, the industry becomes better and better. There was a company called MT Gox, MT Gox, yes. There was another company called FTX that caused damage and disaster to the industry, but we recovered together every time and became much bigger than before. I think there's something fundamental behind this that makes the industry and its participants, including us, so resilient.

2:58美國監管與法規挑戰

2:58Cuomo 州長，剛剛 Star 提到產業的韌性和過去遇到的問題。在美國，至今還沒有通過明確的加密法規，現在 SEC 和 CFTC 都試圖用現有權限來彌補這個空白，制定規範。假如現在舉行期中選舉，民主黨掌控參眾兩院，你覺得會不會讓最近的一些進展倒退？這會不會像 Star 說的，對產業造成問題？Governor Cuomo, Star just mentioned resilience and some of the issues we've faced in the industry. In the US, there still hasn't been a clear crypto law passed, and now the SEC and CFTC are trying to use their legal powers to fill the gap or set regulations or guidance in this area. Do you think if we had midterm elections now, and let's say the Democrats controlled both the Senate and the House, is there a chance things could go negatively? Could we lose some of the recent initiatives? Could that be a problem for the crypto industry, as Star mentioned?

3:46我認為美國到現在還沒建立監管框架是很大的缺失。2011 年我在紐約州率先制定監管框架，2014 年正式上路。因為我相信，身為紐約人，這是推動金融市場前進的科技，我希望它能在紐約落地。聯邦政府到現在還沒通過。所謂的明確法案（Clarity Act）名字取得很好，目標就是給產業明確規則，但失敗了。沒有明確規則就會有混亂，現在各監管機構只能各自填補空缺。First, I think it's a big shortcoming on the part of the US that it hasn't set up a regulatory framework yet. As the moderator mentioned, I put in the first regulatory framework in 2011 in New York. In 2014, it became a reality. Why? Because I believe, as a New Yorker, the financial capital of the world, that this is the technology that will push the financial market forward, and I wanted it in New York. The federal government hasn't passed it yet. The Clarity Act, first of all, probably had the best name for any bill. The goal was to provide clarity for the industry. It failed. When clarity is missing, confusion reigns. What you see now is agencies trying to fill the void on their own.

4:42像 SEC、CFTC 都在各自推進。SEC 推出了我們參與的證券代幣計畫，這很令人興奮。但你說得沒錯，未來國會如果由民主黨掌控，可能會有兩種情況：一是和川普政府對抗，把現有監管措施推翻，因為法案效力高於行政命令；二是大家理性合作，通過完整的明確法案。我希望是後者。其實民主黨並不反對加密貨幣，產業過去支持共和黨，以為這樣能推動法案，但外界有種錯覺，以為民主黨反對加密。事實上，民主黨沒有根本性的反加密心態，加密貨幣其實很符合民主黨理念，能讓更多人獲得金融服務，這也是民主黨一直努力的目標。Like the SEC and CFTC, they're each pushing forward. The SEC approved the tokenized securities program we're involved in, which is exciting. But you're absolutely right, if you get a Democratic Congress, whether in the House or Senate—I'm a Democrat, I think you'll get at least one, maybe both. There's a choice: A, to get into a fight with a Trump administration and roll back what the agencies have done, because legislation trumps regulation; or B, to come together and have a period of rationality and pass a full Clarity Act. I hope for that. Democrats are not against crypto. The crypto industry supported Republicans, thinking that was the way to get the Clarity Act passed, but there's a perception that Democrats are anti-crypto. In fact, there's no ingrained anti-crypto mentality. Crypto actually fits the Democratic Party well. It empowers people who didn't have access to financial products, and the Democratic Party has worked for that throughout its history.

6:19我呼籲美國應該通過明確法案，否則歐洲和其他司法管轄區會繼續領先，因為企業需要知道遊戲規則。產業內普遍認為民主黨反對加密，這很有趣，也值得探討原因。我們作為美國加密社群，還能做什麼來推動法案通過或避免重蹈覆轍？目前加密產業的遊說和政治行動委員會還不多，你覺得產業還有什麼可以改進的地方，幫助政策制定？So I call for the US to pass the Clarity Act, because if they don't, you'll see Europe and other jurisdictions continue to succeed, because companies need to know the rules of the road. It's interesting because there's a perception in the crypto industry that Democrats are against it. It would be very interesting to know what caused that. What can we do better, by the way, as a US crypto community, to help pass the Clarity Act or make sure some of these things don't happen again? There haven't been a lot of crypto lobbying groups or PACs. Do you think there's something the industry is doing wrong and we can improve to help with US policymaking?

7:08產業策略與政策參與

7:08加密產業的發展其實經歷了很大轉變。最早大家是反政府的，不想要政府立法。2011 年我剛參與時，產業根本不想要監管。這些年我們走了很長一段路，但最近在明確法案這一回合，產業以為大力投資共和黨就能推動法案。結果這樣反而讓民主黨疏遠了。你必須採取更平衡的策略，因為國會裡一定會有民主黨人。要通過法案，兩黨都要支持。產業應該更平衡，也要接受我們確實需要政府監管，必須知道遊戲規則。如果產業真的要升級到下一個層次，就像 Star 和 OKX 正在做的那樣，必須有明確規範，大家才能建立信任。The crypto industry has actually gone through a big transformation. At first, it was anti-government, didn't even want government legislation. When I first got involved in 2011, the industry didn't want regulation at all. We've come a long way since then, but I think in this last episode with the Clarity Act, the industry thought investing heavily in the Republican Party was the way to get it done. But when you invest heavily in the Republicans, naturally you alienate the Democrats. You need to take a more balanced approach. There will be Democrats in Congress. You need Democrats to pass a bill, and you need Republicans. You have to be more balanced, and you have to accept that yes, we want government regulation. You need to know the rules of the road. If you really want the industry to go to the next level, which is what Star and OKX are doing, yes, pass the regulations, tell me the rules. I'll be a compliant company because that's how I build trust with citizens.

8:24OKX 的未來願景與金融科技變革

8:24你剛剛提到下一個層次，Star，想請你分享一下你作為 OKX 執行長，未來兩年的願景。其實未來五到十年，金融業會有兩大變革。第一是用戶體驗，現在網路和 AI 科技已經徹底改變我們的生活。你可以一秒鐘傳訊息到地球另一端，一分鐘叫到 Uber 或 Grab，輕鬆在 Amazon 下單。但金融服務還是建立在幾十年前的舊基礎上。我不認為五到十年後，我們的孩子還會去銀行分行開戶、辦業務。網路、區塊鏈和手機科技會讓我們為年輕世代打造全新的金融科技超級應用。You just mentioned the next level. Star, let me turn to you. What's your vision as CEO of OKX for the next two years? Actually, in the next five to ten years, the financial sector will see two fundamental changes. First is the user experience. Today, the internet and AI technology have radically improved our lives. You can send a message to someone on the other side of the world in one second. You can order an Uber or Grab in one minute. You can order anything from Amazon very easily. But financial services are still built on infrastructure from decades ago. I don't think five or ten years from now, our kids will still go to a bank branch to open an account and then go to another branch for service. The internet, blockchain, and mobile technology will enable us to create a super fintech app for the younger generation.

9:44這個應用會讓你輕鬆管理資產、即時低成本支付、全球轉帳，也能投資股票、加密貨幣、商品、衍生品，甚至學習如何累積財富。現在要做到這些很難。新加坡是亞太最大的私人銀行中心，但私人銀行只服務有錢人，這些人其實不需要別人幫他們理財。真正需要負責任投資服務的是一般人，但如果你沒有一千萬美元，根本開不了私人銀行帳戶。我相信 AI agent、區塊鏈和資產代幣化會徹底重塑金融服務。This app will help you manage your money, pay easily, at low cost, instantly, globally, and you can invest in stocks, crypto, commodities, derivatives, and learn how to grow your wealth. Today, that's very hard. Singapore is the biggest private banking center in Asia-Pacific, but private banking only serves the wealthy, and those clients don't really need help growing their money. Many people really need responsible investment services, but today, if you don't have ten million dollars, you can't get a private banking account. So I believe AI agents, blockchain, and asset tokenization will radically reshape financial services.

10:36長遠來看，全球可能會有五到十個大型金融科技超級應用，每個都能服務一億用戶，提供無縫整合的金融服務。第二個重大變革是金融機構的運作方式。現在每家銀行、券商、交易平台都有前台和後台，很多人不了解後台其實包含風控、合規、法務、客服、業務擴展等大量工作。早期大家只談技術，沒人重視金融服務的治理。直到近兩年全球監管機構要求我們取得牌照、建立合規體系，大家才開始重視治理、風控和合規。In the long run, there may be five or ten major global fintech apps, each serving a hundred million clients, providing seamless and integrated financial services. The second fundamental change is how financial institutions operate. Today, every bank, brokerage, or trading platform has a front office and a back office. Many people don't know that the back office actually involves a lot of functions like risk management, compliance, legal, customer service, and business scaling. In the early days of crypto, everyone talked about technology, including myself. We didn't understand what governance in financial services meant. Only in the past two years, when global regulators told us to get licenses and build compliance systems, did many companies start talking about governance, risk management, and compliance.

11:53AI 與區塊鏈重塑合規與監管

11:53你能想像如果有一億用戶，要怎麼確保 KYC 流程正確？怎麼即時偵測可疑行為？現在很多金融機構都有很好的流程來保護自己，發現客戶有問題會終止合作。但當服務規模到一億用戶時，這些控管措施還有效嗎？我認為區塊鏈和 AI 會徹底改變這一切。過去大家覺得區塊鏈公司不透明，兩年前可能還是如此，但現在我們極度透明，所有交易都在鏈上公開，OKX 有任何異常，馬上就會上華爾街日報或彭博新聞。Can you imagine if you had a hundred million users? How do you ensure your KYC processes are accurate? How do you detect suspicious actors in real time? Today, many financial institutions have very good processes to protect themselves. If they find a client is a bad actor, they terminate the relationship. But how effective are these controls when you serve a hundred million clients? I think blockchain and AI will radically change this. In the past, people thought blockchain companies were not transparent. Maybe two years ago that was true, but now we're extremely transparent because all our transactions are fully visible on-chain. If anything bad happens at OKX, you'll see a story in the Wall Street Journal or Bloomberg.

13:10我們建立控管系統時，不只可以查自己的紀錄，也能查其他公司的紀錄，因為都是公開的。你可以看 Coinbase、Binance 的鏈上紀錄，串聯各種訊號。第二，AI 現在雖然讓監管機構很擔心，我們公司也深度採用 AI，但目前還沒讓 AI 直接做合規或風控決策。不過 AI 未來一定會徹底改變這些監管工作。舉例來說，發現可疑交易或行為時，我們會產生警示，然後由數百甚至上千名調查員進行調查。OKX 在吉隆坡有大型營運中心，超過一千名員工專門審查用戶資訊和警示。When we build our control systems, we can look at our own records and also look at other companies' records because they're public. You can look at Coinbase's records, Binance's records, and connect a lot of signals. Second, AI today, as you know, regulators still have a lot of concerns about AI. We, as a company, also deeply adopt AI, but we don't use it to make any compliance or risk management decisions yet. However, AI will radically change how these control functions work in the future. For example, when we detect a suspicious transaction or behavior, we create alerts, then hire hundreds or maybe thousands of investigators to look into it. At OKX, we have a big operations center in Kuala Lumpur with over a thousand employees, all reviewing user information and alerts.

14:13但怎麼確保審查標準一致？如果員工心情好就認真查，心情不好可能就疏忽，這也會出錯。我們現在有雙重甚至多重審查機制，但 AI 能帶來根本不同的改變。AI 和人類調查員比起來，未來一定會更快更準確。結合大型知識庫，AI 可以比人類更有效率地完成這些工作。雖然目前因為監管考量還不能讓 AI 做最終決策，但 AI 已經像副駕駛一樣，能即時偵測威脅、提出建議，最後還是由人類調查員決定。但長遠來看，監管機構也開始接受 AI 是更好的監管工具。我相信 AI 會徹底重塑金融機構的監管和後台作業，前台和後台都會被重構，這對年輕世代來說會是很棒的未來。But how do you ensure consistency? If someone is happy at work, they work hard; if they're not, they might overlook mistakes, which leads to errors. We now have double and even triple-check systems, but I think AI brings something fundamentally different. If you compare AI to human investigators in compliance risk checks, AI will outperform. With large knowledge databases, we can make AI do the job better, faster, and more efficiently than humans. But today, because of regulatory concerns, we don't let AI make any decisions. AI acts as a copilot, detecting threats in real time and making recommendations, while our human investigator makes the final decision. But in the long run, we've talked to many regulators, and they're starting to accept that AI is a better control tool. So I believe AI will radically change compliance and back-office functions in financial institutions. Both the front and back offices will be reshaped. I think this will be a great future, especially for the younger generation.

15:36監管、信任與產業形象

15:36你剛剛提到治理和合規，這方面確實有很多正面發展。延續這個話題，Cuomo 州長，你之前提到選舉和民主黨的情況，也談到產業可以改進的地方。不知道你能不能回答，現任政府，尤其是總統和他的家人，有沒有對加密產業造成負面影響？產業形象變差，會不會對我們造成傷害，尤其是 Star 剛剛提到的那些議題？You just mentioned governance and compliance, and there are clearly a lot of positives in this area. Continuing on that topic, Governor Cuomo, you mentioned earlier about the elections and Democrats, and some things we can improve. I don't know if you can answer this, but do you think some actions by the current administration, especially the president and his family, have negatively affected the crypto industry, giving it a bad reputation, and could that hurt us, especially in the areas Star mentioned?

16:09首先，我不太用『加密』這個詞，因為它很有爭議。過去產業確實有很多爭議事件，我認為現在還有很多疑慮。但我相信 OKX 是金融科技領域的領導者，未來會成為各類金融服務的綜合平台。明確法案之所以沒過，其中一個原因是媒體報導很多民主黨人認為產業有內線交易，這確實是個負面因素。這也是我們在 OKX 努力的原因。正如 Star 說的，如果你想成為影響上億人的金融領導企業，就必須合規，遵守所有規定。政府不會讓你無監管地收錢、提供服務，這從來沒發生過。合規就是建立信任，任何金融領域都一樣。要讓人把錢交給你，必須先建立信任，這正是我們在 OKX 努力的目標。如果有一家公司值得你信任資產，那就是 OKX。First, I don't use the word 'crypto' much because it's a controversial word. There have been a lot of questionable situations around crypto, and I think there are still questions about it. I believe OKX is a leader in fintech and will be the comprehensive platform for all kinds of financial services. But yes, one of the reasons the Clarity Act failed is that there were reports in the press that many Democrats felt there was insider dealing with the crypto industry. That's undeniable, but it was one of the negatives. That's why we work hard at OKX. As Star says, if you want to be accepted as a leading financial company impacting hundreds of millions of people, you have to be compliant. You have to follow the rules and regulations. The government will never say you can provide services and take people's money without oversight. That has never happened since the dawn of history. So compliance, yes, because it's about building trust. In any financial sector, for me to give you my money, I have to trust you. That's what we're working for at OKX. If there's a company you can trust with your money, yes, it's OKX.

17:57快問快答與結語

17:57我們只剩下一分鐘了，來點快問快答。Star，你最喜歡在哪裡跑步？新加坡植物園。Cuomo 州長，你最想修哪台車？1967 年 Corvette，史上最美的車之一。這很美式。那 Cuomo 州長，現在加密產業最讓你興奮的是什麼？我覺得是未來的發展，能讓更多人獲得金融服務。現在全球還有 13 億人沒有銀行服務，OKX 可能就是解方。Star，你最興奮的是什麼？我看到很多年輕人熱愛加密，因為他們就是在這個時代長大的。如果不做 OKX，你會做什麼？可能是教育。Cuomo 州長，如果不從政或不做加密，你會做什麼？修車、經營經典車、BMW、還有釣魚。最後一題，如果可以和任何一個人共進午餐或晚餐，你會選誰？FDR。Star 呢？我會選我媽媽。謝謝大家，今天時間到這裡。We have one minute left, so let's do some quick questions. Star, what's your favorite place to run? Singapore Botanic Gardens. Governor Cuomo, if you could restore one car, which would it be? A 1967 Corvette, one of the most beautiful cars ever made. That sounds very American. Governor Cuomo, what's the one thing that excites you most about crypto right now? I think it's the road to the future. It will provide financial access to more people. There are still 1.3 billion people on this planet without banking access. OKX could be the solution. Star, what excites you most? I see a lot of young people love crypto because they were born in the crypto age. If you weren't busy with OKX, what other job or sector would you go into? Maybe education. Governor Cuomo, if you weren't in politics or crypto, what would you do? Restore cars, classic cars, BMWs, and sport fishing. Last question: if you could have lunch or dinner with anyone, living or dead, who would it be? Franklin D. Roosevelt. Star? The person who gave me life, my mother. Thank you all, that's all the time we have.