Armani Ferrante（Backpack）談全球新型券商：Solana 上的合規市場結構革命

0:00Backpack 創業故事與全球布局

0:00我們來開場吧。Armani，可以跟大家分享一下 Backpack 的創業歷程嗎？你們是怎麼開始、又怎麼走到今天的？Let's kick things off. If you could just tell us a little bit about the journey of Backpack so far, where you came from, how you got here. Share the Backpack story.

0:14其實我們的起點要回到 2020 年，那時候正值 Solana 生態系剛起步、DeFi Summer 剛結束。我很幸運能參與早期各種專案，像是自我託管錢包、去中心化交易所、還有一堆開發工具，這也是現在大家認識我的原因。一路快轉到現在，我們已經是一個全球交易平台，致力於打造全球合規的市場結構。我們團隊遍佈美國、歐洲、日本、澳洲，幾乎全球都有。接下來還有很多令人興奮的新東西，像是股票、鏈上衍生品等等，正在醞釀中。Yeah, so, you know, I think the starting point for us is going back to 2020. This is when we first met. Kind of the early days of the Solana ecosystem, off the back of DeFi summer, you know, had the early privilege of working on, you know, anything and everything that, you know, Labs wasn't working on in the early days: self-custodial wallets, decentralized exchanges, a bunch of tooling, which is how most people know me for these days. Fast forwarding to today, you know, we're a global trading platform. Really trying to build kind of regulated market structure all around the world. So we've, you know, got folks in the U.S. and Europe and Japan, Australia, kind of you name it. And I think there's a bunch of exciting stuff that's kind of coming down the pike, whether it's stocks or, you know, derivatives on-chain. And yeah, it's a lot of stuff we're cooking.

1:03Neobrokerage 願景與市場定位

1:03你可以談談你對於 neobrokerage（新型券商）的願景嗎？這個概念在現今 DEX、中心化交易所、傳統券商的格局下，會扮演什麼角色？Armani, could you tell us a little bit about kind of like your vision for a neobrokerage? And how this maybe can fit in today's landscape of DEXs, CeFi exchanges, traditional brokerages, all that kind of a thing.

1:14過去十年，整個加密貨幣產業發生了很多事。從比特幣誕生、區塊鏈出現、遇到擴容問題，大家開始追求速度，市場結構也跟著演進，AMM（自動做市商）成為主流。DeFi 活動就像一條無限循環的蛇，現在大多數加密資產其實都屬於非生產性資產，像是早期山寨幣、NFT、迷因幣，雖然有社群，但本質上沒什麼生產力。大家一直在問：我們到底在做什麼？Yeah, so for the past, what, 10 years, all this stuff's been happening in crypto, right? You have Bitcoin come out, blockchain, you run into the scalability problem, people start, you know, making things fast. You have new market structure, you know, being built out, AMMs become a thing. And you have this ouroboros of DeFi activity, which has really been the state of most of, I think, crypto today, which is non-productive assets, basically trading error. You know, everything from, you know, the early altcoins, a lot of them did nothing, you know, NFTs, you know, real communities but non-productive assets, latest meme coin mania. And it's always been this question of, like, you know, what are we all doing here?

1:54現在正在發生的事情是，我們正處於這個大型資產代幣化階段的中間，對吧？你會看到來自實體經濟的真實資產正逐步上鏈。這聽起來很簡單，但實際上，你會發現一個全新的平行市場結構正在 Solana 上被建立起來。慢慢地但確實地，整個股票市場正在進入這個生態系統。不只是美國，未來會是全世界，包括香港、日本、韓國，你會看到 Anatoly 最初的願景正在被實現。而且這一切發生的速度遠比我們所有人預期的還要快，對吧？甚至到上個禮拜為止，你已經看到這些股票的交易量已經超越了現在紐約證券交易所和納斯達克的交易量。And what's happening right now is we're in the middle of this big tokenization phase, right, where you have real assets from the real economy coming on chain. And it sounds so simple, but, you know, you have this new parallel market structure being built on Solana, where, you know, slowly but surely the entire stock market is coming into the ecosystem. Not just the U.S., but it's going to be the entire world. Hong Kong, Japan, Korea, where you kind of have Anatoly's original vision being fulfilled. And this is happening way faster than we all thought it would happen, right? Even till, you know, last week. You have all these stocks that are doing more volume than are happening on NYSE and Nasdaq right now.

2:42你有創新豁免條款出現，而今天在 Solana 上發生的事情，已經超越了創新豁免條款所能提供的範圍。所以這其實已經有點可惜地成為 Solana 生態系正在發生事情的一個絆腳石。而且，這或許是目前加密貨幣領域最重要的事情。現在你已經有數百檔股票上鏈，但你知道，到今年年底，將會是整個股票市場都上鏈。我認為這只是一個會持續加速發展的趨勢。You have the innovation exemption come out, and the stuff happening on Solana today already outpaces what the innovation exemption provides. So it's already kind of, unfortunately, a showstopper for what's happening in the Solana ecosystem. And it's, you know, perhaps the most important thing happening in crypto right now. And right now you have hundreds of stocks on chain, but, you know, by the end of the year, it's going to be the entire stock market. And I think this is, you know, just a trend that's going to continue to accelerate.

3:13資產上鏈的關鍵與市場結構創新

3:13但重點來了，最難的是怎麼把穩定幣上鏈，接著是怎麼把股票等權益資產上鏈。一旦股票能上鏈，從股票到其他資產（像是債券、私募信貸、甚至房地產）就只剩一步之遙。這是目前最重要的里程碑。But, like, here's the thing, right? The hard part is, like, getting stablecoins on chain. Then the next hard part is getting equities on chain. But the moment you have equities, you concede the entire economy because it's a very small step to go from equities to everything else, right? Fixed income, private credit, things that are, seems kind of nebulous and extreme, like real estate, right? And I think that is the most important milestone to date.

3:39你認為現有的玩家有什麼盲點是 Backpack 解決了的？這對交易者、散戶、機構來說有什麼意義？Can you give us like an overview of what you think existing players are missing that maybe Backpack is solving? And then obviously the follow-up to that would be, why is this important for traders, retail investors, and for institutions?

3:55所以這一切的關鍵問題其實就只有一個，對吧？就是流動性，對吧？你要怎麼在 Solana 或其他任何區塊鏈上獲得好的價格執行？這是一個非常困難的問題。而且這不只是流動性，還有資產選擇的問題。現在大多數代幣化產品的核心問題在於，它們都是債務型證券。所以你有一個淨資產價值（NAV）作為代幣的支撐。這個支撐可能是現金，可能是券商帳戶裡的股票，也可能是差價合約（CFDs）。本質上，它就是一種債務結構。So the key problem with all of this is just one thing, right? It's liquidity, right? How do you get good price execution on Solana or any other chain? That's like a really hard problem. And it's both liquidity and also asset selection. And the core issue with most of the tokenization products today is that they're debt securities. So you have a NAV backing the token. It might be cash, it might be stocks in a brokerage, it might be CFDs. It's, you know, it's a debt structure.

4:27所以我們做的核心事情就是——我們把一個代幣化產品，將穩定幣的模型應用到證券上。你現在可以在Solana上購買一張Nasdaq的股票，然後以和你把USDC存入Coinbase完全一樣的方式，把這張股票存入Backpack券商，而這個存入的動作會把它轉換成一個真正的證券權益。這聽起來好像很簡單，對吧？就像你買股票，你就得到股票。但這個關鍵點在於，它不是現金結算的工具，而是一個可替代、可兌換、且一對一兌換權利的資產，這解鎖了一個非常重要的市場結構——也就是你現在可以在NYSE、Nasdaq和Solana之間進行套利。And so the core thing that we did was we—Took, you know, a tokenization product, took the stablecoin model and applied it to securities, where you can buy a share on Nasdaq today on Solana, deposit it into the Backpack brokerage in the exact same way that you deposit in USDC into Coinbase, and the act of depositing transforms it into a bona fide security entitlement. And so it sounds like a simple thing, right? Just like you buy stock, you get a stock. But that one thing, where it's not a cash-settled instrument, it's a fungible, redeemable, one-to-one redemption right, unlocks a really important piece of market structure, which is you can arb now between NYSE and Nasdaq and Solana.

5:20而那正是能夠讓高效率市場原生運作在鏈上的關鍵拼圖，這樣你就可以擁有像是專業做市商（prop AMMs）、還有像 Radium 這樣的自動化做市商（AMMs），在 DeFi 生態系中提供非常優質的流動性以及非常好的價格執行。And that was the missing piece to actually be able to get efficient markets running natively on-chain, where you can have, you know, prop AMMs, you know, AMMs like Radium, providing really good liquidity with a really good price execution inside of the DeFi ecosystem.

5:37鏈上證券流動性與 Backpack 優勢

5:37你可以在我們每一次在 Solana 上推出新證券時看到這個現象。證券一上線，流動性立刻提升 10 倍，有些情況甚至價格優化達到 45 倍。像 Blockworks 就做過一個很大的資料分析，針對所有去中心化金融（DeFi）上的代幣化證券。如果你實際去看數據，當你比較 Solana 上 Backpack Securities 的原生 DeFi 生態系和 Robinhood Chain，你真的會發現執行效率提升了 45 倍。這讓人想說，這怎麼可能？Robinhood 是全球最重要的金融科技公司之一，而 Backpack 只是個相對小型的新創公司。當然，Solana 上有非常強大的 DeFi 生態系，但這一切其實歸結於市場結構的不同。And you see this with every single security that we launch on Solana. The moment it gets launched, it immediately has 10x more liquidity, in some cases 45x better pricing. Like Blockworks did this big, you know, data analysis on all the DeFi on tokenized securities. If you actually look at the data, you literally get 45x better execution when you look at the native DeFi ecosystems on Backpack Securities on Solana versus on Robinhood Chain. It's like, okay, like, how is that possible, right? Robinhood's like the single most important fintech company in the world, and you have, you know, relatively small startup and Backpack. You have obviously the incredible DeFi ecosystem on Solana, but it's because it boils down to market structure.

6:25你需要能夠進行市場套利。你需要能夠讓價格保持一致，而這正是我們不斷看到正在發生的事情。你有一條來自像是NYSE和NASDAQ的大型流動性管道，流向Solana，這些流動性在所有平台之間自由流動，任何人都可以參與。你不需要經過某些白名單的做市商。你不需要支付高額的贖回費用來鑄造或贖回資產，你實際上可以讓市場維持一致。因為你持有的是股票型證券，而不是像淨資產價值（NAV）支持的債券型證券。You need to be able to arb markets. You need to be able to keep prices in line, and that's what we see happening constantly. You have this big pipe of liquidity flowing from, like, NYSE and NASDAQ onto Solana, and it's freely flowing across all of them, and anybody can do it. You don't have to go through some whitelisted set of market makers. You don't have this large redemption fee to mint and redeem, and you can actually keep markets in line. Because you have this equity security as opposed to, you know, a NAV-backed debt security.

6:54Solana 的定位與未來願景

6:54接下來聊聊你和 Solana 的淵源。Backpack 一直是 Solana 生態的核心，Solana 也一直支持 Backpack。你怎麼看 Solana 在你描繪的未來藍圖中的角色？All right, next up, maybe let's get into, you know, kind of your history with Solana. So Backpack has been really core to Solana for a long time. Solana has been supporting Backpack for a long time. Where and how do you think Solana fits into this future vision you've been talking about?

7:10在我看來，Solana 一直以來都在朝著一個方向前進——它不是一個交易所。它遠遠超越任何單一的交易所，對吧？你可以把它稱作金融的 API，你也可以說它是一個平行經濟體和金融系統。但我認為最終的狀態會是 Solana 成為一切的聚合層，對吧？你想在 NYSE 和 Nasdaq 交易，你可以在 Solana 上做到。你想交易 Meme 幣、NFT，你也可以在 Solana 上做到。你想要在全球範圍內傳送穩定幣，你也可以透過 Solana 完成。但這一切的核心，就是要導入市場結構，不只是導入加密原生資產，而是把整個經濟體都帶進這個生態系，因為網路效應就是金錢，對吧？Solana, in my view, has always been—Marching towards, it's not an exchange. It's much bigger than any single exchange, right? It's, you know, you could call it an API for finance. You can call it a parallel economy and financial system. But I think the end state is going to be Solana as the aggregation layer for everything, right? You want to trade on NYSE and Nasdaq, you can do it on Solana. You want to trade—Meme coins, NFTs, you could do it on Solana. You want to, you know, send, you know, stablecoins around the world, you could do it to Solana. But it's all about importing market structure, importing not just crypto-native assets, but the entire economy into the ecosystem, because the network effect is money, right?

7:55大家都在關注像是收入、回購代幣這些事情，這些確實很重要。但在我看來，這其實並不是最核心的指標。真正的北極星應該是最大化網路上的TVL（總鎖倉價值），因為資本的在地性才是最重要的事情。People are looking at, like, revenues and buying back tokens and all this stuff, and that's important. But it's not actually the North Star from my point of view. The North Star is maximizing TVL on the network, because locality to capital is the single most important thing.

8:13你看任何 L1 上的大型應用，像 Solana 上最大的 app，雖然用戶很多，但如果你把它搬到 L2 或其他鏈，通常都行不通，因為資本和流動性才是網路效應的本質。這個趨勢只會越來越明顯，隨著越來越多資產上鏈，Solana 的網路效應會持續增強。If you take any large app on any L1, right, take the largest app on Solana, they might have a ton of users, but then you go build an L2, right, or a separate chain. And you ask yourself the question, is that separate chain going to work? I think a lot of people have tried these experiments, and the answer is always the same: it doesn't work. You can't just, like, take all the users out, even though you own the app, because all of the capital, like the capital and the liquidity, is the network effect. And what we've seen is just that's continuing to grow, and that's going to continue to, you know, accelerate as more and more of, you know, these assets come on-chain.

8:48全球競爭與 Backpack 差異化

8:48我們時間差不多了，最後聊聊競爭。你怎麼看這個競爭激烈的市場？Backpack 有什麼差異化？為什麼用戶要選擇你們？How are we doing on time? I think we have one more question. Maybe let's talk about just kind of like, you know, the broader elephant in the room. You're in a very competitive market. How do you think about competition? How do you differentiate? Why should customers come and trade on Backpack?

9:07是的，我們做得不一樣的最大重點是，我們採取了這樣一個非常明確的立場：我們要成為受監管的市場結構，而且我們要在全球範圍內做到這一點。我們不會有什麼 Backpack International 和 Backpack US，對吧？不會像有 Binance 和 Binance US。也不像那些去中心化交易所各自做自己的事情。我們不是想在不同市場做不同的事情。我們有一個單一的平台，所有東西都會接入這個平台。無論是國際、日本、歐洲、美國，都是同一層架構，這個架構以前所未有的方式連接 DeFi 和傳統金融。Yeah, so the big thing that we're doing differently is we take, we took this, you know... A very strong opinion that we are going to be regulated market structure, and we're going to do this all around the world. There's not going to be Backpack International and Backpack US, right? There's not going to be, you know, there's like Binance and Binance US. There's the DEXs that do their thing. Like, we're not trying to, like, do these different things in these different markets. We have a single platform. That everything is going to plug into, right? International, Japan, Europe, U.S., single layer that bridges kind of DeFi and TradFi in a way that nobody's done before, right?

9:47每個人現在都有這種分散的市場結構，因為他們在不同的地方做著不同的事情。但是，你知道，我們希望成為這個受監管的基礎，不只是為了我們自己的產品，而是為了整個 Solana 生態系。你現在可以從股票市場看到這一點，當你想要做代幣化股票時，你必須要有一家券商。你不能只是作為一個 DEX 來做這件事，對吧？你現在也可以從永續合約看到這個現象，隨著衍生品執照的監管環境以及美國相關規則的制定變得越來越明確。你也看到 Hyperliquid 和 Payward 發生的事情，我認為這大概是其中最重要的事件之一。Everybody has this fragmented market structure because they're doing different things in different places. But, you know, we want to be this regulated backbone, not just for our own products, but for the entire Solana ecosystem. You know, you see it now with stocks where, you know, if you want to do tokenized stocks, like you have to have a brokerage. You can't do that just as a DEX, right? You're seeing it with perps now as, you know, the derivatives licensing landscape and the rulemaking that's happened in the U.S. is becoming more clear. You saw what happened with Hyperliquid and Payward, which I think is probably one of the most important.

10:22你知道，今年加密貨幣領域發生的事件真的劃下了一條分界線，決定了美國市場未來將如何運作。你可以把我們想像成是 Hyperliquid 的反面，對吧？所以我們其實是在輸出一種受監管的市場結構，並且把人們接入這個結構，而他們則是……一個由 11 人組成的團隊，打造出全球最高效的公司，然後把這些負擔轉嫁給其他人。因此，沒錯，這就是為加密貨幣和主流金融所設計的受監管市場結構，而且我們不是只在一個國家這麼做，而是在全球每一個國家都在推動這件事。You know, events to happen in crypto this year because it really draws the line in the sand with respect to how the U.S. markets are going to function. And you can kind of think of us as like the reverse of Hyperliquid, right? So we are kind of, you know, this regulated market structure that we're exporting and plugging people in, and they are, you know. An 11-person team building the most efficient company in the world that then offload that burden to kind of other people. And so, yeah, it's regulated market structure for kind of, you know, crypto, mainstream finance, and we're doing it not in one country, but in every single country around the world.

10:59結語與感謝

10:59太棒了。Armani，感謝你今天的分享，也謝謝所有 BP 代幣持有者和在場的朋友們。Awesome. Well, hey, Armani, thanks for your time this morning, and thank you to all the BP token holders and everyone else here at Token. Cool. Thanks.