Polygon 執行長 Sandeep Nailwal：兩千兆美元支付浪潮即將上鏈

0:00Polygon 的主流化使命

0:00從 2017、2018 年開始，我一直相信加密貨幣應該要走向主流，這也是我投入大量心力的原因。很多人應該都知道 Polygon，從 2021、2022 年開始，像 Nike、Instagram、Reddit 這些大型品牌紛紛進入 Web3，而大多數都選擇跟 Polygon 合作。即使到現在，每隔一兩週你都會聽到像 Visa 或 Meta 這些大公司宣布跟 Polygon 合作支付相關的消息。很多全球最大的銀行也都在跟 Polygon 合作，這正是 Polygon 的時刻。Even in the 2017-18 days, I always believed that crypto should go mainstream, and I put a lot of effort in doing that. And a lot of you guys might know Polygon. From 21, 22 days where, like, you know, from Nike to Instagram to Reddit, all of these different large brands came into Web3, and most of them were working with Polygon. Even now, every day, every other week, you hear some large announcements like Visa or Meta doing the payouts and— You know, basically, like some of the largest banks coming into crypto, and many times they are working with Polygon, right? And so this is the moment for Polygon.

0:55我一直以來打造 Polygon，就是為了真正的現實世界應用。現在這波加密貨幣的主流採用浪潮，就是我們一直等待的時刻。這一波浪潮主要是由穩定幣帶動，我們稱之為「兩千兆美元浪潮」。這其實就是支付市場的規模，每年大約有兩千兆美元的支付交易。Like, you know, how I've been building Polygon is for the real-world adoption. And this is the real-world adoption wave that is coming in crypto, and— This is with stablecoins and, you know, we call it the two quadrillion dollar wave. This is about the payments, right? So there's roughly two quadrillion dollars of payments are done, you know, every year.

1:21穩定幣：加密貨幣的主流應用

1:21大家都知道，過去加密貨幣交易所的交易量動輒數千億、甚至數兆美元，因為加密貨幣一直被當作投機資產。但現在最明顯的現實世界應用，就是穩定幣。全球支付產業的總交易量大約是兩千兆美元，總交易筆數約 3.6 兆次，支付公司的總營收高達 2.5 兆美元，像 Stripe、Worldpay、Checkout.com 這些公司，以及各大銀行都在這個產業裡面。We all know about, you know, huge hundreds of billions or trillions of dollars of volume on crypto exchanges because crypto till now has always been the speculative asset, right? It's a new speculative class. But the real-world use case of crypto that has emerged very prominently is the stablecoins, right? And the overall volume, as I said, there's two quadrillion dollars, and there are around 3.6 trillion transactions. The revenue of the payment companies globally is 2.5 trillion dollars, right? And, you know, some of them like Stripes and Worldpays and, you know, Checkout.coms of the world, and then biggest of banks and whatnot.

2:03其中有 208 兆美元是跨境支付。雖然兩千兆美元裡面有很多是國內支付，但跨境支付才是穩定幣最有價值的場域，穩定幣已經開始在這個市場發揮影響力。國內支付可能還需要一點時間，但跨境支付市場，穩定幣已經開始大幅改變現狀。全球最大的品牌都在問我們，怎麼用穩定幣移轉資金。And, you know, around $208 trillion of that is in cross-border flows. Like, you know, obviously two quadrillion includes a lot of, like, domestic flows also, but the cross-border part is where the stablecoins are extremely relevant. And they are already cracking the market. Domestic markets, it might take time, but the cross-border movement, stablecoins are already making a very big dent. And we can see the largest of the largest brands globally are, you know, asking us that how can they move their money with stablecoins.

2:37支付市場滲透率與成長機會

2:37但是你知道，穩定幣其實已經在大規模運作了。不過在支付領域，他們的市占率大概只有0.02%，對吧？你會聽到像是鏈上交易量有時候是數百億、甚至數千億美元，像Polygon每個月也有大約800億美元的交易量。我認為Tron是最高的，Tron的穩定幣流通量每個月大概有六百億到七百億美元。但其中很多其實是去中心化交易所（DEX）的交易、借貸、質押等等，對吧？這些其實都不算在支付交易量裡。純粹的支付交易量在全球範圍內幾乎只有0.02%，大約是3900億美元，而且每一個支付的應用場景滲透率都不到1%。But the stablecoins, you know, are already operating at scale. But for payments, their share is like 0.02%, right? When you hear about, like, on-chain volume of, you know, 10, probably hundreds of billions of dollars on various chains, like Polygon also does like around $80 billion a month. And I think Tron is the highest. I think Tron has the stablecoin movement volume of like probably 600, 700 billion dollars monthly. But a lot of that is like, you know, DEX exchanges, lending, borrowing, and whatnot, right? And that doesn't count into the payments volume. The pure payments volume is hardly 0.02% globally, which is like $390 billion, and every single use case in payments is under 1% penetration.

3:07這代表——這個支付堆疊中的任何一個部分，如果你們當中有人正在加密貨幣領域創業，無論你碰觸到哪一個部分，現有規模下你都有100倍的成長空間。而且這些支付預計會持續成長。所以從現在開始，未來可預期的成長可能有150到200倍。That means— Any part of this payment stack, if any one of you are building your startup in crypto, any part you touch, you have 100x growth available at today's scale. And these payments are expected to grow, you know, at the continuous pace. So the growth that is available is probably 150 to 200x from here.

3:49機構與跨境支付的痛點

3:49機構。像我已經不再爭論了。我想你們很多人應該已經知道這些最大的名字了。他們當中有很多，其實都以不同的方式和我們合作，比如說，Visa、Meta、Mastercard、ANZ Bank、還有 Revolut。他們全部都在和加密貨幣做一些事情。我甚至還沒提到 agentic pay，大家都相信加密貨幣和穩定幣會在這方面產生巨大影響。但我今天想談的是，問題到底出在哪裡？特別是在跨境支付這一塊。現在我說的，就是我剛才提到的 208 兆美元的跨境支付。問題到底在哪裡？這裡的核心問題是什麼？Institutions. Like I've stopped debating. I think many of you guys already know some of these biggest names. Many of them are, you know, working with us in various capacities, like, you know, Visa, Meta, Mastercard, ANZ Bank, you know, Revolut. All of them are doing something or the other with crypto. And I'm not even talking about the agentic pay, which everybody believes that crypto and stablecoins will have a big dent on. But I want to talk about today that where exactly is the problem, right? Especially in the cross-border. Right now I'm talking about the, which I told about $208 trillion of cross-border payment. Where is the problem there? Where is the core problem on this one, right?

4:30這其實不是關於監管或其他很多事情，而是純粹關於銀行相關的東西，對吧？在傳統市場中，通常有大約五兆到七兆美元閒置在這些為跨境資金移動而預先存放資金的帳戶裡，對吧？你知道，這些就是所謂的代理銀行系統，例如 J.P. Morgan，他們一天就能移動大約十五兆美元。對，一天，不是一個月。這個數字大到你會一直覺得很驚訝，像是每天十五到十七兆美元。舉個例子，Stripe 這家市值一千五百億美元的公司，一年才處理一點二兆美元的資金流動，而 J.P. Morgan 一天就能處理十五到十七兆美元。It's not about, like, regulation and many other things, but it's actually purely, you know, the banking stuff, right? So. In the traditional markets, generally there is five trillion to around seven trillion dollars which sits idle in these pre-funded accounts for cross-border movement in the banking world, right? You know, these, the correspondent banking systems, you know, for example, J.P. Morgan, they move around fifteen trillion dollars. A month, a single day, sorry. Like, you know, the number is so big that you constantly, you know, flounder on that. Like, you know, 15 to 17 trillion dollars a day. To give you a reference, Stripe, $150 billion company, moves $1.2 trillion a year, right? And J.P. Morgan moves 15 to 17 trillion dollars a day.

5:24沒錯，所以你可以想像它運作的規模，而這一切都是透過代理銀行體系來完成的，銀行之間會維持他們的nostro和vostro帳戶。因此，他們必須在不同地區維持流動性，只有這樣，他們才能進行這些跨境支付。Right, so you can imagine the scale that it operates at, and all of this is done via correspondent banking system, where banks maintain their nostro and vostro accounts. So they have to maintain liquidity in different geographies, and using that only they are able to move these cross-border payments.

5:39而這正是穩定幣實際上可以產生影響的地方，這也是許多穩定幣公司正在努力追求的目標。但問題在於，現實世界中那些每個月資金流動達到兩百億、三百億、五百億、甚至一千億美元的企業，他們是以國家的規模來思考這些事情的。然而，加密貨幣市場裡的參與者，仍然相當偏向技術導向。我們跟他們討論時，會問你要用哪一條鏈、你想用哪一種穩定幣、你會用哪個錢包、你的RPC供應商是誰。And that is where, like, the stablecoins can actually create an impact, and that's what, like, you know, a lot of these stablecoin companies are going after. But the problem happens that these most of the businesses in the real world who are moving like 20, 30, 50, 100 billion dollars a month, they think of this in the form of countries. But the crypto markets, like, you know, the crypto players still are fairly technical in nature. Like we talk about, we talk to them about. Which chain you are going to use, or which stablecoin you want to use, what wallet you will be using, what are the RPC provider.

6:16所以，基本上當某個大型企業想要使用穩定幣支付時，這就像是一長串的供應商名單，他們必須從合規供應商中做選擇。還有入金、出金服務提供者、錢包提供者、橋接鏈等等。對於這些企業來說，每一項都有一長串的複雜流程需要處理。So it's basically a long list of vendors when a particular large business wants to use stablecoin payments, they have to choose from the compliance vendors. To the ramp, on-ramp, off-ramp provider, wallet provider, bridge chain, like this. There's a long list of complexity for each one of these, you know, to each one of these businesses.

6:37AI 與全方位支付解決方案

6:37因此現在產業裡有些玩家開始打造端到端的支付解決方案。多虧 AI 的進步，這件事現在變得可行。以前很難想像，但現在透過 AI 編程，可以把所有環節整合在一起，打造完整產品。企業只要透過一個 API，就能處理合規、資金進出、帳戶、路由等所有流程，直接交給 AI agent 整合，企業不用再煩惱背後的技術細節，只要專注於資金從 A 點到 B 點的移動即可。And hence, there are some players in this industry who are building the end-to-end stack. And thanks to AI development also, this is now possible. What was unthinkable. To build, let's say one year from now, that you could build the whole stack together with AI programming, you could build the entire product together, right? So what needs to be built to handle this, right? So this part which I was talking, that, you know, where you have a compliance, money in, money out, accounts, routing, all of this is done under one single API for businesses, so that they have one single API. They pass it on to their AI development, you know, agent. It integrates, and now they don't have to think about it. They are just moving money from one point to another.

7:21我們現在跟客戶溝通時，不再強調自己是 Polygon 區塊鏈，而是告訴他們，不管你的資金在世界哪裡、是什麼形式（法幣、銀行、金融科技、穩定幣），只要想從 A 點移到 B 點，我們都能協助，完全不用擔心背後怎麼運作。這背後有兩大玩家在打造完整堆疊，一個是 Polygon，另一個是 Stripe。Like when we talk to our customers now, we don't talk to them that, okay, we are Polygon, we are the blockchain, you can, you know, move money on Polygon blockchain. We tell them that you have money wherever in the world, in whichever form. It might be in— It might be in fiat currency, it might be in a bank, it might be with a fintech, it might be in stablecoins. Whatever it is, you want to move it from point A to point B, we facilitate that. Doesn't matter, and you don't need to worry about how it is happening in the background. It all goes into the background. So there are two large players, like, you know, I would say that who are building the full stack. One is Polygon, another one is Stripe, right?

7:58Polygon OMS：全球合規支付新基礎

7:58你們可以看到，如果你們當中有人有在關注Polygon在過去一年到一年半在支付領域的發展，你們會發現Stripe收購了Bridge，目的是為了用穩定幣進行合規的資金流動，對吧？他們也收購了Privy來做錢包，對吧？然後他們正在打造Tempo鏈，這條鏈將會成為他們自己的結算層。類似地，Polygon一直都有Polygon鏈，你也可以看到Polygon的發展順序是相反的。Polygon一直都有Polygon鏈和Polygon CDK，這讓企業可以發行自己的客製化鏈、私有鏈、合規鏈，對吧？所以我們已經有了底層部分，現在正朝著更高層建設。And you could see, like, you know, if any one of you is following the journey of Polygon in the payments in the last one, one and a half years, you will see that Stripe acquired Bridge for the regulated money movement using stablecoins, right? They acquired Privy for wallets, right? And then they are building the Tempo chain, which is going to become their own, you know, like the settlement layer also. Similarly, like Polygon has always had the Polygon chain, and you can see the Polygon order in reverse, right? So Polygon always had Polygon chain and the Polygon CDK, which allows businesses to launch their own custom chains, private chains, compliant chains, right? So we already have the bottom part, and we are building towards.

8:40事情的另一面。我們最近收購了Coinme，這是一家在美國受監管的支付服務提供商。我們也正在歐洲和英國取得相關執照，Polygon將成為第一家真正擁有全球受監管金融科技資金流動基礎設施的區塊鏈原生公司。而這正是Polygon正在努力打造的目標，這個計畫稱為Polygon OMS。The other sides of the thing. So we have, like, you know, we recently acquired Coinme, which is a regulated payment provider in US. We are acquiring licenses in Europe, UK, and Polygon will become the first blockchain-native company which actually has a regulated fintech money movement rails across the globe. And that's what Polygon is trying to build towards. That's called Polygon OMS.

9:03所以我們有 Sequence 錢包。我們收購 Sequence 是為了錢包功能，然後 Polygon Trails 則是跨鏈意圖平台。基本上，一旦你使用 Polygon OMS 技術堆疊，你就不需要再擔心任何跟區塊鏈或銀行相關的複雜性，對吧？你只需要作為企業、作為新型銀行，使用那個 API 就可以了。要把資金從一個地方移到另一個地方，一切都可以透過同一個 API 處理。So we have the Sequence wallets. We acquired Sequence for the wallets, and then Polygon Trails is the cross-chain intent platform. Basically, once you use the Polygon OMS stack, you don't need to worry about any complexity related to blockchains or banking for that matter, right? All you need to do is use the API to provide, as a business, as a neobank, just use that API. To move the money from one place to another, and everything is handled via the same API.

9:32我認為，像 Stripe 這樣的公司也看到了這個事實，所以我也非常尊敬 Stripe，因為他們是第一家真正以支付為核心的公司，能夠看到穩定幣所帶來的全部潛力與力量，他們正朝著這個完整的端到端未來努力建構。And I think, like, Stripe sees this truth, and that's why, like, huge respect for Stripe also because they are the first, you know, payment-native company who see the full spectrum of the stablecoin, the power that stablecoin offers, and they are building towards this full end-to-end future, right?

9:50Polygon 生態系的成長與 POL 代幣經濟

9:50Polygon 正在全力打造這套合規支付基礎設施，這些執照和整合需要時間。我們花了三到六個月整合各地執照，現在才剛起步，已經達到每月五億美元的交易量。我相信三個月內就能突破每月十億美元。鏈上的穩定幣規模已經非常大，Polygon 以多項指標來看都是最大的穩定幣鏈，每月穩定幣支付量約 700 億美元。That's, as I said that, you know, that's what Polygon is building. You know, these licensing and all these integrations take time. We spent like around, I would say, three to six months, last three to six months, in integrating all of this licensing and everything. And we've barely started moving, and we already have started hitting half a billion dollars in volume. I feel that. Within three months, this is not the time where we have started. We have not started ramping up the volumes yet. I think within three months, we'll start doing a billion dollars volume a month. On the chain, however, stablecoins are already very, very big. I think many of you guys know that Polygon is already the biggest stablecoin by various metrics. We move around 70 billion dollars.

10:42在穩定幣、支付這個領域，你們也知道，很多人都知道那些有名的應用程式像是 Polymarket、Courtyard，它們都是建立在 Polygon 上，並且持續在 Polygon 上開發新的功能，比如 Polymarket 最近就在 Polygon 上推出了他們的永續合約（perps）、他們的 V2，還有持續推出一些很棒的產品—— 傳統的 Polygon 鏈，很多人會用來做各種用途，這條鏈在營收方面其實表現得非常好，這些收益會回饋給我們的 POL 代幣持有者。產生的營收大約是 3,600 萬美元。我認為在加密鏈協議裡，這大概可以排進前五、前七名。In the stablecoin, you know, payments, and I think a lot of you guys also know that these famous applications like Polymarket, Courtyard, they're all built on Polygon and continue to build their new, like Polymarket recently launched their perps on Polygon, their V2, and they continue to launch some amazing products and— The chain, the traditional Polygon chain, which, you know, a lot of people use for various purposes, this actually is, in terms of revenue also, it's like actually crushing it, you know, which goes to our POL token holders. And the revenue generated is around $36 million. I think in terms of the crypto chain protocols, it's like top five, top seven.

11:21在營收方面，這條鏈的規模遠大於你所看到的大多數大型加密資產。而且所有這些手續費都用於購買並銷毀POL。Chain in terms of the revenue generated and much bigger than most of the, you know, the large crypto assets that you see. And all of this fees goes into, you know, acquiring and burning POL.

11:33這就像是來自 Grow the Pie 的一則推文，這推文顯示，在 Polygon 穩定幣交易量方面，我們比 Ethereum L1 還要大。我們比 Arbitrum 和 Base 加起來還要大，對吧？這指的是穩定幣交易量。如果你看其他很多指標，比如 USDT 零持有者，我們會是第二名的兩倍。所以很多人在加密貨幣圈其實不知道 Polygon 這條鏈的基本面正在成長，因為 Polygon 代幣在市場上的表現並不理想，大家沒有意識到 Polygon 的基本面其實持續在增長。而且，所有這些手續費實際上都會導致 Polygon 原生代幣，也就是 POL 代幣的銷毀。And this is like a tweet from Grow the Pie, which shows you that in terms of the, you know, the Polygon stablecoin transactions, we are bigger than Ethereum L1. We are bigger than Arbitrum and Base combined, right? And this is like the stablecoin transactions. If you look at many other matrices like USDT zero holders, we would be double the second player, right? So a lot of people don't know in crypto that Polygon, you know, chain and the fundamentals are growing because, you know, the token is not doing that great in the markets, and people don't realize that the fundamentals continue to grow. You know, for Polygon. And, you know, all this fees is actually results in the burning of Polygon's native token, the POL token.

12:17上個月我們銷毀了1億枚POL代幣。鏈上的收入已經累積到大約2100萬枚POL準備銷毀。我認為，大概每一季，協議都會銷毀6000萬到1億枚POL，這幾乎佔了總供給的1%。所以我認為，從今年開始，我們已經進入通縮狀態，因為Polygon的總體通膨率是2%，而鏈上的活動基本上抵消了這個通膨，並且由於我們的收入成長了10倍，今年POL代幣已經變成通縮型了，對吧？Last month we burned 100 million POL tokens. The revenue on the chain is already lined up around 21 million POL for burning. And I think, like every quarter. The protocol will burn 60 million to 100 million POL, which is almost 1% of the supply. So I think since starting this year, we have been deflationary because Polygon has 2% inflation overall, and I think the chain activity generally offsets it and has made the POL token deflationary this year because of the 10x ramp up in the revenue we got, right?

12:54Polygon 的獨特定位與未來展望

12:54這就是我這邊要分享的全部內容。但我最想傳達給大家的最重要訊息是，區塊鏈正在走向主流，而穩定幣是加密貨幣中最主要、最具主流化潛力的應用。我相信，透過Polygon OMS，我們正在打造的是一整套合規的支付堆疊，服務全球的銀行和金融科技公司，這同時結合了我們所建立的鏈上基礎設施，也就是我們的去中心化區塊鏈。這讓Polygon在這個環境中非常獨特，也具有獨特的優勢，因為一般來說，主流的支付服務提供者正試圖進入加密領域，而純粹的加密區塊鏈則仍然被認為有點邊緣化。That's all from my side. But the most important message I want to give to you guys is that the blockchains are going mainstream, and stablecoins are the biggest use case of crypto that is going mainstream. And I believe that, you know, with the Polygon OMS, what we are building is this entire, you know, regulated payment stack. For the banks and the fintechs across the globe, and this is alongside our chain infrastructure, the decentralized chain that we have built, and that makes Polygon very unique and uniquely positioned in this environment because generally you have the mainstream payment providers who are trying to get into crypto, whereas you have like the pure crypto blockchains, which are considered to be like still a little bit.

13:42你知道，就是那種，你知道，非黑即白，或者說，在金融領域裡的某個區域。但Polygon正試圖走到中間地帶，我們擁有受監管的支付管道和一切相關設施，同時也有我們那種硬核的加密基礎設施背景。然後把這兩者結合起來，當我們去拜訪最大的銀行和金融科技公司時，通常我們就是房間裡那一兩個這樣的人。You know, kind of, you know, black and white or, you know, kind of region of the, in the finance space. But Polygon is trying to come in the middle where we have regulated payment rails and everything, and then we have our, like, hardcore crypto infrastructure background. And then combine these together, when we go to the largest banks and fintechs, generally we are the, we are like, you know, one or two people in the room.

14:07就像 Stripe 一樣，Polygon 有完整的端到端策略，這也是為什麼越來越多大型品牌選擇加入 Polygon。我相信接下來兩三個月，我們會宣布更多令人驚豔的品牌進入 Polygon 生態，這些都是大家日常生活中熟悉的品牌，會讓整個加密產業為之一震。Polygon OMS 正在為這些品牌鋪路，謝謝大家的聆聽！A bit like I talked about Stripe also, which has this complete end-to-end strategy, and that is resulting in huge amount of these large brands coming on Polygon. I think in the next two to three months, the kind of brands that we are going to announce that are coming on Polygon is absolutely, you know, like unthinkable for crypto, and some of them will actually, you know, going to shake the— The crypto industry that, okay, these brands that are day-to-day brands that we know and hear about, they are coming into crypto, and Polygon OMS is paving that way to bring into that. So I thank you all for giving me your audience. Thank you so much.