杜拜數位經濟藍圖：DET／DBCC 首席 AI 長 Marwan Alzarouni 對談 Serotonin 創辦人 Amanda Cassatt

0:00杜拜的韌性與回歸

0:00Marwan 博士，很高興第一次在台上和你見面，雖然我們早就因為你在區塊鏈和現在 AI 的角色而認識。杜拜花了五年成為加密產業的聚集地，但今年 Binance 卻讓 UAE 員工搬到亞洲，資本也開始轉向香港和新加坡。你覺得發生了什麼變化？杜拜又是怎麼捲土重來的？All right, Dr. Marwan, it's the first time we meet on stage, but we've known each other a while since we first met through your role in blockchain and now AI, which I'm excited for you to get into. But just to start us off, Dubai obviously spent five years becoming the place that crypto moved to, but this year Binance offered its UAE staff relocation to Asia, and capital started hedging with Hong Kong and Singapore. So I guess my question is, what changed, and how is Dubai coming back?

0:45很高興第一次和你同台。不過就像你說的，我們認識很久了。杜拜這座城市一直強調準備好、靈活應對任何挑戰。我們給大家很大的彈性，也有機制確保每次回歸都更強大。無論是 COVID、2008 金融危機，還是現在的挑戰，我們都會從經驗中學習，並且提前規劃下一步。First of all, good to be on stage with you for the first time, but like you said, we've known each other for a long time. And for us in Dubai, we're a city that's based on being prepared and being agile to face anything. And we always give our people the flexibility to do whatever is comfortable for them. But also, we have mechanisms to make sure that when we come back, we come back stronger. And we learn from what happened to any experience, whether it was COVID or it was the financial crisis 2008, and also now with the current crisis. Knowing that Dubai always has not only mechanisms but strategies moving forward and focusing on how to come back and plan for it even before the situation settles down.

1:30數據很明顯，大家都在快速回流。夏天離開的人九月都回來了，活動也全面恢復。我們剛辦完阿拉伯旅遊市場展，數字非常漂亮。不管是科技、旅遊還是其他產業，杜拜都是活動和投資的熱點。AI 相關的數字也很驚人，無論是科技還是傳統金融領域。So that being said, the numbers are very assuring. People are coming back in a rapid pace. People who left in the summer are coming back in September. Events are back in full fruition starting from September as well. We've had the Arab travel market with amazing numbers for the industry. But every kind of industry, whether it's tech, whether it's tourism, whether it's any other kind of niche industry. We're a cool Dubai home for events and also investments are coming back, even if the AI numbers are very, very high right now, and in both the tech sector and also in the traditional financial sense.

2:10可以說，數據證明一切，杜拜真的回來了。沒有什麼戰亂，這點讓大家很安心。很多暑假離開的家庭、居民、觀光客都回來了，飯店也都滿了，這些都是因為 UAE 的活動和優惠帶動的。今天現場還有杜拜展館，大家可以去看看現在有很多房產都在特價，而且還可以用加密貨幣付款，這裡的觀眾最適合了！So you would say the numbers bear it out. It's already coming back, and events are back. 100%. And there are no rockets coming in and all this stuff, so that's reassuring. A lot of families that left during the summer are back. A lot of residents, tourists are back. Hotels are being, you know, being filled as we speak as well, and all driven by events and happenings in the UAE and offers as well. And also we have today the Buy Pavilion, so you can visit us and look at properties that are available at a bargain price, I would say as well. And they accept crypto, so you are the perfect audience for that.

2:45AI 與區塊鏈雙引擎

2:45你同時負責杜拜經濟的 AI 和區塊鏈中心，這兩個前沿科技都在同一個屋簷下很有意思。你覺得政府同時推動這兩項技術，能做到什麼單獨一項做不到的事？So you run AI for Dubai's economy, but also the blockchain center. So it's interesting that both of those frontier technologies are under one roof. What can you do working with the government on those two technologies together that you might not be able to do with one or the other one just alone and siloed?

3:05杜拜很幸運，這裡有來自世界各地的人才。新加坡教育水準很高，但杜拜有各種背景的外籍人才，他們不只懂自己國家的市場，也懂杜拜和國際市場。這種多元的人才池，無論是加密、AI、資安、數位鑑識、金融科技、旅遊等，都能互相激盪，讓每個人每天都能進步，不只是專業知識，還有廣度和通識，這對個人成長非常重要。So Dubai has been very lucky. We have talent from all over the world. Over here in Singapore, the education level is very high. But over in Dubai, we have a lot of expats that come in from all walks of life, from all, you know. Experience levels, and they understand their markets in their home countries plus in Dubai and international markets. So you have this melting pot of talent, whether it's in crypto and AI and cybersecurity and digital forensics, in any kind of technology, including in fintech, including in niche kind of industries, including mainstream industries like tourism as well. So having that kind of Milton pot and really rubbing shoulders with other people really increases your value as a person and makes you improve incrementally day by day, not on your core kind of knowledge, but also in your range and general knowledge. And that's extremely important for you as a person to grow.

4:02我們每天都看到有人醒來就開始做新專案。我剛在後台遇到一個人，原本做完全不同的東西，現在加入了一個美國專案。這說明大家合作的方式很特別，能做到其他地方做不到的事。And we see people waking up every day. Building a new project. I just met a guy backstage as well who was doing a totally different project, and then now he joined another project that's actually U.S.-based. So that gives you an idea of how things are moving, but also how people are working together collaboratively to achieve things that will not be possible anywhere else in the world.

4:22政府推動 Agentic AI

4:22現在真的有政府規定所有部門都要用不只是一般 AI，而是 agentic AI、寫程式的 AI 嗎？Is it true that there's now a government mandate that all government offices need to use not just normal Chat AI, but agentic AI, coding AIs?

4:31沒錯，我們有聯邦層級的策略，規定 50% 的政府部門服務都必須由 agentic AI 驅動。這是很大的推動力，也是大家的北極星。不只是政府部門，連民間也跟進。政府都能做到，民間當然更沒問題。Yeah, we have a federal level strategy, and 50% of all government department services have to be powered by not AI, agentic AI. And that's a huge driver, and it's a huge north star. For everyone to follow, not only on the government side, but we eat our own dog food, but also on the private side, so people can see if the government can do it, and that's the more, you know, strict kind of setting. Imagine what we can do on the private side.

4:58新創需求與杜拜優勢

4:58這幾年很多新創和機構搬來杜拜，他們現在向你們政府提出的需求，和以前有什麼不同？So we started talking many years ago now about bringing crypto and bringing frontier technologies to Dubai. And a lot of startups and institutions have moved there since then. My question is, what are those startups and institutions asking for from you, from the government now that they weren't asking maybe when you first met them?

5:20一開始大家最在意的是監管明確性，像 Binance、OKX、Bybit、Bitget 等主流交易所剛來時，最大問題是人才，但現在這問題已經解決了。人才和監管明確性現在都不是問題。現在更多活動搬來杜拜，大家也更重視曝光度。其實我們沒花太多力氣宣傳杜拜，但口碑傳播很強，大家都會聊杜拜，甚至離開杜拜的人也會 FOMO。So a lot of it was around regulatory clarity in the early days of Binance and OKX and Bybit and Bitget and—a lot of the mainstream exchanges moving to Dubai, one of the first problems was access to talent, but they don't have that problem anymore. Talent. Yeah, talent was number one. Regulatory clarity was number two. Both are solved right now. But more and more, we see a lot of events moving to Dubai, and right now also visibility. People don't know. We don't do—a lot of legwork when it comes to advertising Dubai as a destination for crypto, but word of mouth travels more powerful than you think. And a lot of people know about Dubai through word of mouth and through people's experiences in Dubai, which I think is the biggest advocate for Dubai. People who are in Dubai cannot stop talking about Dubai. People who left Dubai cannot stop talking about having FOMO. Of not being right now in Dubai.

6:14新創與生態系成功案例

6:14有沒有什麼新創或機構的成功案例，能讓想來杜拜發展的人參考？What are a couple of products or success stories, whether it's startups or institutions, that really kind of showcase what someone can expect who's thinking about bringing their business to Dubai?

6:26其實很多，大型交易所就不多說了。Coinbase 也收購了一家杜拜公司，直接變成獨角獸。Easy Labs 也是例子，Binance 也幫助很多新創從杜拜出發，甚至拓展到全球。我們杜拜區塊鏈中心也有 EduChain，後來被加拿大創投收購。整個生態系都很活躍，裡面的新創也都在成長。There's a lot of them, but the big exchanges, the big names, I'm not going to give them free plugs. I think I already did. But there's a lot of other startups that went from nothing to— Maybe we can plug one of the small startups. Coinbase, for example, acquired a Dubai entity, and that went beyond a unicorn. But a lot of other ones from Easy Labs, for example, Binance is another support story that they support a lot of startups coming in from Dubai, but also through the Dubai entity moving to other places in the world. So also through our system in the Dubai Blockchain Center, we had EduChain, which exited to a Canadian VC as well. The ecosystem is not only thriving, but the startups that are part of that ecosystem is thriving.

7:18我們現在有一個以 AI 為核心的創業者基地，叫 Dubai Founders HQ，裡面有超過一千家 AI 和區塊鏈新創，實體和線上平台都有，任何人都可以申請。這是我願意推薦的地方，因為這裡新創互相交流、人才流動，還有分批次的培訓，現在這一批剛開始，年底結束，明年一月還有比賽。For example, we have right now an AI-centric founders hub. It's called Dubai Founders HQ that has more than a thousand startups in AI and blockchain, and both of them are in the same physical area. But we have an online platform as well where anybody can apply. It's DubaiFoundersHQ.com. That's a plug I'm willing to make. And that's really, really a good ecosystem of startups meeting each other, talent crossing between one startup and the other. And we have cohorts ongoing. The current cohort started a week ago and goes until the end of the year. And then in January, they have the first, you know, competition.

8:01杜拜的競爭優勢

8:01回到主題，杜拜為什麼能吸引機構和新創？你們在監管、發照、簽證、稅務上都很快，其他地方像新加坡、香港也在追趕，杜拜有什麼是別人學不來的？Bringing us back to the topic of, like, why Dubai as opposed to another place, I think, like, Dubai really pioneered a lot of this for institutions, for startups, competing on the same pitch of having clear rules and fast licensing, and for individuals competing on, you know, having access. Being able to come into the country, being able to get a visa and taxes. So there are other jurisdictions playing versions of those games, right? Maybe that have come later. How does Dubai have something that something like Singapore or Hong Kong or some of the other emerging economies in the Middle East can't compete with. What is the thing that other people can't choose new policies to rival?

8:49我們在監管和發照速度上是最快的，整個生態系也很完整，不管你是做加密還是 AI，都有長遠規劃。像 D33 杜拜經濟藍圖 2033，聚焦五大領域：金融科技、房產科技、物流、醫療（我們還有長壽醫療會議），這些都以 AI 為底層主題，創業加速器也是以 AI 為核心，這是我們最重視的。So one of the things is we are the fastest moving when it comes to regulations. We are the fastest moving when it comes to licensing as well. We are one of the fastest when it comes to providing the whole ecosystem holistically, whether you are in the crypto space or in the AI space. Whether you're looking for long-term kind of security, we have long-term vision like D33, the Dubai Economic Agenda 2033, which focuses on five different areas: fintech, proptech, property technology, basically, logistics, healthcare, which we have longevity with healthtech, and you've been to one of our conferences in Dubai, which was around longevity and—and then the underlying theme is AI, and everything in the incubator accelerator that I was talking about with Dubai Founders HQ, the underlying theme is always AI, and that's what we doubled down on.

9:46杜拜 AI 願景與人本精神

9:46如果要用一句話形容杜拜的 AI 願景，會是什麼？杜拜想要什麼樣的 AI 生態系？If Dubai could articulate its vision for AI, what would a—Dubai-friendly AI look like? What does it want that ecosystem to look like? Who does it want to serve? What's the outcome that would make Dubai happy?

9:59我們有一份叫做 Dubai Blueprint for AI 的文件，核心就是以人為本。AI 不是要取代人，而是要增強人類能力，讓大家工作更有成就感，也能運用 agentic AI 增進知識。AI 要補足人類、擴展人類的知識深度和廣度，這才是我們的目標。We have actually published that in something called Dubai Blueprint for AI, and basically the focus is on the humans. So instead of having an AI that alienates the humans or takes over the human jobs, it's actually AI that augments the human. And makes him not only work in a more satisfactory way, but also empowers him to run a lot of agentic AI, make sure that he increases his own knowledge as well. So making sure that AI can supplement the human and augment him, and having a human that has a better range and depth of knowledge by using these kind of tools such as agentic AI.

10:37這個願景就是杜拜要支持那些能提升人類、而不是取代人類的 AI 公司。AI 要幫你省下時間，讓你有更多時間做重要的事、參加會議、面對面交流，而不是被困在辦公桌處理文書或回信。我們部門和很多政府單位都用 agentic AI 來優化時間、準備會議、跟進事項。我們有一個政策叫零官僚，AI 代理人會自動幫你處理後續，不用自己追蹤。And the idea with that mandate is, or that vision statement, is that Dubai wants to support AI companies that enhance humans, as opposed to ones that replace humans. 100%. And give you time back, not only for leisure, but also for doing things that matter: more meetings, more face-to-face. More events, more that kind of stuff. Instead of being stuck in a desk job with doing paperwork or answering email, all the employees in my department and a lot of other government departments in Dubai and also in the whole UAE use agentic AI to optimize their time with email, for example, prepare for meetings, optimize their meetings, optimize the follow-ups from meetings. We have a policy, for example, called zero bureaucracy. So you don't follow up with people. You don't have to follow up with anybody else because your AI agent will do that. Your AI agent will help make sure that there is no follow-up that is needed because your job will be, actually, the ask will be done.

11:35AI 參與政府決策與主權 AI

11:35你剛剛說 AI 也會參與政府會議，甚至內閣會議，真的有 AI 代理人坐在會議裡嗎？And even you were saying, like, AI advising the government in government meetings. Yes, 100%. We go all the way to the cabinet where we have an AI agent that sits in all the cabinet meetings and literally not only be passive, but be active and proactive in answering questions.

11:52AI 代理人有名字嗎？其實可以隨時召喚。像 Amazon 會留一個空位代表客戶，杜拜則真的有 AI 代理人參與會議，補足人類可能忽略的洞見，像是客戶統計數據或其他資訊，讓董事會能掌握更多細節。Does it have a name? I don't know if they have a name, but they actually can be called upon. I don't know, one of the companies, I remember they had this empty seat. Where that represents the customer, which is that is not there. I think it was Amazon or one of those companies, one of the big tech companies. But in the UAE and Dubai, we have an AI agent actually sitting in meetings to represent, you know, the hindsight that the humans might not have in that, whether it is statistics about the customers, whether it's any kind of other. Insight or hindsight issue that the board would not otherwise be aware of.

12:30當然，我們不會用美國專有的 AI 當政府顧問。我們非常重視主權 AI，而且不只一套，針對不同應用場景都有，包括參與會議、擔任董事會成員，能結合歷史經驗和未來洞見。AI 也要懂我們的語言、文化和倫理。我們從 2017 年就成立 AI 倫理委員會，結合教育、公部門和私部門，這方面我們很早就開始了。And obviously, you don't want some American proprietary AI company having built the model that you're using as the government advisor. 100%. And we are very, very focused on having sovereign AI, but not one, multiple for multiple kind of use cases, including the attending and—and assisting in meeting, being a board member, which is an AI that has that kind of oversight over the history, but also insights for the future for that board. In addition to that, we want AI that is good in our language and our culture and our ethics as well. And we started on this very, very early. We started in 2017. With an AI ethics committee that involved the triple helix, which is education, the public sector, and private sector. So we've been very early in that space.

13:19量子安全與未來準備

13:19你之前在資安領域，最近杜拜很常談量子安全，這是真的在準備還是只是會議話題？Switching gears slightly, I mean, you came to this role from time that you spent on the security side. One type of messaging that I've been hearing coming out of Dubai a bunch, especially compared to other places, is talking about quantum. Is that something serious that Dubai is preparing for, or is it still more of a conference topic?

13:39我們杜拜很早就成立了電子資安中心，我是第一批主任之一，也算創辦人。政府的資安部門已經有量子政策和量子準備，現在每個政府部門都要遵守，所有關鍵資訊基礎設施都要提前做好量子安全，不等量子電腦真的來才準備。So for us in Dubai, we started our cybersecurity arm, which is Dubai Electronic Security Center. I was one of the first directors there, so I would consider myself a founder of Dubai Electronic Security Center. And within that digital cybersecurity arm of the government, We actually have the quantum policy and quantum readiness that is already live, and every government department has to abide by it. But also any critical information infrastructure has to be quantum ready from now, not waiting for quantum to happen.

14:12歡迎來杜拜，親身體驗

14:12最後，如果現場有人想把事業或自己搬到杜拜，你有什麼 30 秒的推薦？In our last few seconds, if there are people here in the audience that have businesses or personally are thinking about moving to Dubai, To Dubai, what's your, like, 30-second pitch to them about why they should do that?

14:25很簡單，來杜拜吧！你來杜拜親自體驗就知道，杜拜會自己說話、自己推銷自己，來過的人都不想回去。我很多朋友就是來杜拜工作或參加活動，結果就留下來了，現場也有不少這樣的人。即使活動結束，他們還是會回來。The onus is on you. Come to Dubai. Once you come to Dubai and you witness it yourself, I mean, Dubai speaks for itself, and it sells itself, and you will never go back. A lot of people actually do that, and I know a lot of my friends that actually moved to Dubai, and I see people in the audience as well. That moved to Dubai for a job, for an event, and ended up staying in Dubai, and they love it. Even after the events, they came back.

14:50非常感謝 Marwan 博士，也謝謝 TOKEN2049 給我們這個機會。Very cool. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Marwan. It's a pleasure, and thanks Token for having us.