StraitsX：香港掃碼、新加坡結算，怎麼換匯？

18:09開場

18:09大家好，早安。謝謝大家這麼一大早就來。如各位所見，現在有兩個空位。這週叫 Grab 的人應該都知道，交通有點亂，而且只會更糟。講者正在路上，大概再幾分鐘就到，我們就先開始；他們應該會在圓桌後段加入。今天的主題很有意思，我覺得很適合Hello. Good morning, everyone. Thank you all for joining us bright and early. As you can see, we have two empty seats. As you know, for those of you who have been taking Grab, it's been a bit of a— madhouse throughout the week, and it will get progressively worse. So our speakers are on their way. They are probably just a couple of minutes out, so we'll get started without further ado. But you can expect them to join us later throughout the panel. So today is sort of a really interesting topic that I think it's very appropriate

18:40當開場。我們在 Stablecoin Summit。一說到穩定幣，大家首先想到的當然是美元穩定幣。但生態系成熟得很快，現在已經有很多主要的非美元for us to kick off. We are at Stablecoin Summit. When people think about stablecoins, the first stablecoins that people think about, it's of course U.S. dollar stablecoins. But as we all know, the ecosystem has matured in a very fast and very rapid way, where now there are many leading non-dollar . .

19:00穩定幣。這很重要，對吧？很多時候你想做跨境交易，不一定用穩定幣結算，或者說不一定用美元。可能是日圓、韓元、印尼盾。今天這場圓桌很好，可以聽非美元穩定幣發行方和基礎設施業者怎麼想、怎麼做。stablecoins. And that's important, right? Because many times when you think about doing a cross-border transaction, you don't necessarily settle in stablecoins, right? Or rather, you don't necessarily settle in U.S. dollars. You could settle in the yen, in the won, in the rupiah. So I think really today's panel, it's a great opportunity to hear from some of these non-U.S. dollar stablecoin issuers and infrastructure providers, to hear how they are thinking and how they're building up.

19:27希望每位與談人自我介紹，多講你們在做什麼，更重要的是你們的穩定幣服務哪些使用情境？從你開始。很高興來這裡。我是 KRWQ 共同創辦人之一，也是 IQ 的 CEO，我們推出 KRWQ，是第一個韓元穩定幣。So what I would love is for our panelists to introduce themselves, tell us a bit more about what you do, but more importantly, what use cases do your stablecoins serve? Starting with you. It's great to be here. I'm one of the founders of KRWQ. I'm also the CEO of IQ, and we launched KRWQ as the first Korean won stablecoin.

19:48我們進這個市場的方式是，其實已經做一段時間了。2018 年在首爾推出 IQ token，在當地培養很大社群，很快上架 Upbit、Bithumb；除了社群，我們在區塊鏈技術上也累積很多經驗，因為我們做了第一個區塊鏈百科全書。And how we got into this market is that we've been around for a while. We actually launched the IQ token in 2018 in Seoul. We developed a huge community there, quickly listed on Upbit, Bithumb, and also in addition to building a community there, we also had a ton of experience in blockchain technology because we built the first blockchain encyclopedia.

20:11然後我們跟夥伴 Frax 結合。部分創辦團隊重疊，他們做出很大的美元穩定幣。我們跟著合作，去年看到監管在轉，韓國也開始朝韓元穩定幣框架推進。And then we combined that with our partner Frax. We share some of the same founding team, and they created a huge U.S. dollar stablecoin. So we partnered with them, and then last year we saw the regulations shifting, and Korea is starting to work towards a framework to a Korean won stablecoin.

20:29搶先推出韓元穩定幣

20:29我們決定要搶第一、推出第一個韓元穩定幣。使用情境上，最先聚焦的是離岸外匯市場。所以我來這裡，新加坡是離岸 FX 交易最重要的市場之一。So we figured that we wanted to be the first to market and launch the first Korean won stablecoin. And then in terms of use cases, the first use case we're really focusing on is the offshore FX market. And that's why I'm here, because Singapore is one of the most important markets in terms of offshore FX trading.

20:47韓元很大部分交易在新加坡、倫敦、香港進行，尤其韓元是受限貨幣，跟新幣或美元很不一樣。很多市場和交易在這裡用衍生性商品完成，那是我們第一個鎖定的市場。So much of the Korean won trading happens in Singapore, London, and Hong Kong, especially because the Korean won is a restricted currency. So it's quite different from the Singapore dollar or the U.S. dollar. So a lot of that marketplace and trading takes place here using derivatives, and that's the first market that we're targeting.

21:06很好。請講。我是 Startale 的 NK，很高興來這裡。Startale 是區塊鏈基礎設施開發公司，跟日本金融機構和企業一起做多項基礎設施產品。跟 Sony Group 合作中較知名的：Soneium，是以太坊 Layer 2，2025 年 1 月起已在 mainnet 上線。Excellent. Go ahead. Thank you. Yeah, this is NK from Startale. Happy to be here. Startale is a blockchain infrastructure development company. We build multiple infra products together with Japanese financial institutions and enterprises. Notable products that we are currently working on with Sony Group: we are building Soneium, which is an Ethereum Layer 2 blockchain that has been live on mainnet since January 2025.

21:31也跟 SBI Group 做兩項產品。一是 JPYC，日本第一個、目前也是唯一 trust-type 穩定幣，完全受監管的銀行產品。6 月在以太坊 mainnet 上線，現在跟監管單位討論，希望能在中心化交易所 SBI VC Trade 以外自由流通。And also with the SBI Group, we are building two products. Number one is JPYC. This is the first and currently the only trust-type stablecoin in Japan. Fully regulated banking product. We have launched this on Ethereum mainnet in June, and currently we are under discussion with the regulators to make it publicly available, to be freely traded outside of the centralized exchange SBI VC Trade.

21:54另一項是跟 SBI Group 做的 layer-one 區塊鏈，專給交易、真實世界資產和全球永續合約，叫 Stream。這三項是我們跟機構、企業合作的產品。此外 Startale 也在做自有錢包基礎設施。很高興今天來。And another product that we are building with the SBI Group is a layer-one blockchain specified for trading purposes, real-world assets, and perpetual contracts across the world, called Stream. These are the three products that we are building with institutions, enterprises. On top of that, Startale is also building a wallet infrastructure as Startale's proprietary infrastructure, and happy to be here today.

22:17謝謝。另外兩位與談人，很高興你們來了。簡短自我介紹，也分享你們推的非本地、非美元穩定幣的使用情境。大家早安，抱歉遲到。每次來新加坡都更忙。我來自香港，是 RD Technologies 的 CEO。這場講非美Thank you. For our two panelists, glad you could join us. Maybe you could do a quick introduction of yourself, but also share the use case for a non-local stablecoin, a non-dollar stablecoin that you guys might have introduced. Hi, good morning, everyone. Sorry for being late. Every time I come to Singapore, it gets busier and busier, busier. So... I'm from Hong Kong, where I'm CEO of RD Technologies. This is a panel about non-U.S.

22:46香港非美元穩定幣

22:46元穩定幣吧，香港顯然，如大家都知道，有穩定幣條例，其實不只是港幣穩定幣，法律對貨幣是中立的。我們其中一塊業務在香港穩定幣發行沙盒裡。dollar stablecoin, I guess, because, you know, Hong Kong, obviously, as everyone knows, there's a stablecoin ordinance for Hong Kong—actually, it's not just for Hong Kong dollar stablecoin. The law is currency agnostic. And one of our businesses is in the stablecoin issuer sandbox in Hong Kong.

23:06第一批牌照給了兩家銀行，我們在等第二批。同時 RD 在跑穩定幣 B2B 支付平台。B2B 不只是把方案賣給其他機構。Of course, the first batch of licenses were granted to two banks, but we're waiting for the second batch. But in the meantime, RD is running a stablecoin B2B payment platform. When we say B2B, it's not just, you know, offering our solutions to other institutions.

23:26我們很專注在香港做基層工作、實際落地， onboarding 一些最大、中大型企業，來自香港／中國、做全球生意。所以我們提供穩定幣入金、全球收款、付款、託管，都在香港。We're very focused on doing the groundwork and heavy lifting in Hong Kong in terms of onboarding some of the largest and, you know, mid- to large corporates or enterprises, you know. From Hong Kong/China, doing business globally. So that's where we offer stablecoin on-ramping, global collection, payout, custody in Hong Kong.

23:49那個平台品牌叫 RD Pay，我們跟全球很多 fintech、銀行合作，讓香港商戶跟世界各地，尤其是新興市場，收款和付款。So that's, that platform is where the brand of that platform is called RD Pay. That's where we are working with lots of partners, fintechs, banks all over the world. For our merchants in Hong Kong to collect and pay out from Hong Kong with different parts of the world, especially emerging markets.

24:09很高興來這裡。謝謝。我是 StraitsX 共同創辦人兼 CEO 劉天威。抱歉稍微遲到。謝謝 XREX 辦這場活動、邀請我們。StraitsX 是支付基礎設施業者，在新加坡，我很高興能參與。我覺得這裡在監管上比區域、甚至全球都稍微靠前。MAS 大概在 2022 年就定稿So happy to be here. Thank you. Hi, everyone. My name is Tianwei Liu. I'm the co-founder and CEO of StraitsX. Apologies for running a little bit late. Thank you, guys at XREX, for organizing the event here, for having us over here. So StraitsX is a payment infrastructure player. We have been in Singapore, which I'm very glad to be part of, Singapore over here. I think we are slightly ahead in terms of regulations around the region and probably even globally. So MAS has already finalized, you know, its framework for stablecoin regulation, or what we call well-regulated stablecoin regulation, out of

24:40新加坡的穩定幣監管框架，或者我們說的 well-regulated stablecoin 監管，已經有多份諮詢文件，現在大概是第三版，希望能在議會通過前過關。我們很幸運被選為 early compliant，可以在即將到來的框架下營運。Singapore about 2022 itself, and there have already been multiple consultation papers. I think we are at our third iteration right now, hoping to make it past the Parliament before that. And we have been very fortunate to be selected to be what they claim as early compliant with the upcoming framework that allows us to operate.

24:56StraitsX 與跨境支付

24:56StraitsX 除了是支付基礎設施，也是 XSGD 的發行方，新加坡 1:1 背書的新幣穩定幣，是歷史最長的非美元穩定幣之一。鏈上已處理超過 100 億新幣，上個月剛跨過 100 億，跨多條鏈。我們也發 XUSD，1:1 美元穩定幣。兩者都已在 Coinbase、Binance、Bybit、OKX 等頂級交易所國際上架。So StraitsX, besides being a payment infrastructure player, has been the issuer of XSGD, which is our one-to-one-backed Singapore dollar stablecoin out of Singapore itself, has been one of the longest-running non-U.S. dollar stablecoins. Very proud that on-chain itself has processed more than 10 billion Singapore dollars. It just crossed 10 billion, I think, last month itself, across multiple different chains. We are also the issuer of XUSD, the one-to-one-backed U.S. dollar stablecoin. Both stablecoins have actually been listed internationally on some of the top five major exchanges like Coinbase, Binance, Bybit, and OKX itself.

25:26回到使用情境，非美元穩定幣的真實用途最後還是跨境支付，對吧？國內有 RTP 等，我們也有參與，在新加坡和印尼做支付基礎設施已經 10 年。用區塊鏈做國內支付的效率有，但不是 10 倍那種。So when you come back to use cases itself, I think if you go down to non-U.S. dollar stablecoins first specifically, we have been demonstrating that the real use cases for stablecoin ultimately is cross-border payments, right? Domestic-wise, I think there's a lot of RTP payments, which we are also part of. We've been operating as a payment infrastructure player across Singapore and Indonesia for the last 10 years. So the efficiency that you can squeeze out of using blockchain to do domestic payment is there, but it's not like a 10x improvement, right?

25:55真正殺手級、已證明有效的是跨境。我們很幸運跟 MAS 做 Project Orchid，大概兩年、已在 production。The real killer use cases that have shown to work very well is always when it comes to cross-border transactions. Case in point, again, we're very fortunate to be part of the pioneering group of companies working with MAS on the Project Orchid program, about two years running right now in production.

26:09我們幫 Alipay Plus 錢包生態。香港旅客用 Alipay Plus app 掃碼，可在約 4 萬 Grab 商戶 QR 付款。對你來說就是 Alipay Plus，對商戶是 GrabPay，體驗不變、不用重訓、QR 不用改。背後每一筆都是 XSGD 即時鏈上結算，那 100 億鏈上交易很多來自這裡。We have helped Alipay Plus wallet ecosystem players. When travelers from Hong Kong, for example, our friends here, if you use your Alipay Plus app today, you can scan and pay at about 40,000 merchants, Grab merchants' QR codes. To you, the experience itself is just Alipay Plus. To the merchant itself, it's GrabPay. There's no change in the user experience, no retraining, no QR code changes. But behind the scenes, that's where the 10 billion on-chain transactions came from, right? Every single transaction is settling real-time on-chain using XSGD.

26:40也在 Avalanche、Base 等鏈上。這是非美元穩定幣跨境支付在監管下跑 production 的好例子。此外美元和非美元穩定幣現在也廣泛當穩定幣卡片的結算貨幣，Visa 全球成長最快的類別之一。Across multiple chains as well, it's on Avalanche, it's on Base chain itself. So this is a very good example of the real-world use cases of stablecoin in production, running under MAS guidance in compliance for the last two and a half years. So it has been one of a good example of how non-U.S. dollar stablecoins can be used for cross-border payment use cases itself. Of course, beyond that, the U.S. dollar stablecoin that we're issuing right now, and also the non-U.S. dollar one, have been now being widely used as a settlement currency for the stablecoin-backed cards itself that has been issued globally, which have exploded quite a bit as one of the fastest-growing categories for Visa globally right now.

27:16非美元穩定幣的角色

27:16謝謝與談人的介紹。接下來 30 分鐘我想一層層剝開。在座應該都同意，穩定幣、跨境支付這個使用情境已經證明了。Thanks a lot to the panelists for the great introduction. So I want to sort of use the next 30 minutes to peel back the onion a bit, right? I think everyone in this room over here would agree that stablecoins, the use case of cross-border payments, is proven.

27:30真正的問題是：非美元穩定幣在一筆交易裡扮演什麼角色？美元成為全球儲備貨幣，很大程度是因為你到哪、哪個兌幣所、哪個機構都願收美元。I guess the real question is, what is the role of a non-USD stablecoin in a transaction? Because in many ways, the reason why the dominant sort of currency, the global reserve currency, is the U.S. dollar is the fact that you could go to any country, any money changer, any institution, and they would accept U.S.

27:48對吧，毫無懸疑。非美元穩定幣在哪裡能讓今天更好？99% 交易仍以美元計價。開放給大家，有看法的請講。對，非美元穩定幣有兩種不同流向。dollars, right, without question. Now, where does the role of a non-U.S. dollar stablecoin play? How does it make things better from where things are today, when 99% of these transactions are still dollar-denominated? I'm opening this up for everyone. So, yeah, for anyone that has a view, go for it. Yeah, so there's also—so there's two kind of different flows that people are seeing in terms of non-USD stablecoins.

28:12一種很令人興奮、很多人聯想到非美元穩定幣的，是韓元直接到日圓這種、不經美元；但其實韓元到美元還是有巨大增量空間。One that's exciting, that I think a lot of people associate with non-USD stablecoins, is going from, for example, Korean won to the Japanese yen, so going between without the dollar, but there's still actually huge incremental gains to be had between the Korean won and the U.S.

28:29例如美元。受限貨幣換成美元這類非受限貨幣，效率問題很多。KRWQ 其中一個角度就是這個。擴張上第一個大使用情境是上架 EDX。EDXM International 在新加坡，Citadel Securities 支持的 institutional exchange，美國也有 EDX Markets。KRWQ 第一個同時在新加坡 perp、美國 spot 上架。U.S. dollar, for example. So especially in the case of restricted currencies, there's a lot of inefficiency when converting a restricted currency to a non-restricted currency like the U.S. dollar. So that's one of the angles that we're taking on with KRWQ. Our first real huge use case in terms of expansion was listing on EDX. So EDXM International is actually based here in Singapore, and they are a Citadel Securities-backed, institutional-focused exchange. They also have EDX Markets in the U.S. So KRWQ was the first to be listed on both their perp in Singapore and then their spot market in the U.S. S.

29:09這讓我們跟現行 NDF 市場競爭，交易成本降 50 到 75%，還有 24/7 運作。傳統 NDF 很分散，交易在倫敦、香港。So that allows us to compete with the current NDF market and deliver a 50 to 75% lower-cost trading venue. Plus, there's the added advantage of it happening and the market operating 24/7. Right now, it's kind of fragmented, the traditional NDF market, because there's, for example, the trading happens in London, Hong Kong.

29:31倫敦休市與韓元選擇

29:31例如倫敦交易所休市、韓國市場也休市，時間錯開時，費用會高很多。很多對話聚焦非美元、非受限貨幣，但要懂的是：從美元移到 KRWQ 這類非美元穩定幣，費用、速度、透明度會大幅改善。另外 Navin，你們怎麼選韓元？So, for example, when the London exchanges are closed and the Korean markets are closed, or when you have that mismatch, the fees can be substantially higher. So I think one of the things that, because a lot of the conversations have focused on in terms of non-USD stablecoins are non-restricted currencies, I think that one of the keys to understand is that there's going to be huge fee reduction, speed, transparency improvements when you're moving from USD to non-USD stablecoins like KRWQ. And before I move on, Navin, I want to ask: how did you guys land on the Korean won?

30:07受限貨幣很多，為什麼是韓元？好問題。先澄清，我不是韓國人，常有人問。我領導 IQ token，IQ 2018 年上線。Because in the world of restricted currencies, there's a ton, right, for you to choose from. Why the Korean won specifically? It's a great question. And first, I want to clarify, I am not Korean, so that's a question that comes up all the time, but IQ itself, so I'm the leader of the IQ token itself, and IQ itself actually launched in 2018.

30:29一上線就 Upbit，韓國最大交易所，很快也 Bithumb、Binance，從韓國出發再走向全球。So we launched on Upbit right away, which is Korea's largest exchange. We quickly listed on Bithumb as well, the second-largest exchange in Korea. Also listed on Binance as well, so we were able to really start with the Korean market and then go global.

30:462018 年 token 上線起就在韓國落地，社群很大，得力助手 Andy 在首爾。我們從 IQ 第一個區塊鏈百科在韓國上線開始建社群。So we've actually been on the ground in Korea since 2018, since the token itself launched. We built a large community there. My right-hand guy Andy is based in Seoul, so we built, you know, a huge community in Korea, and then from there, we realized, because how we started was with IQ was the first blockchain encyclopedia, so we launched that itself, the IQ token in Korea, so built the community there.

31:10之後看到有趣機會。我們跟 Frax 團隊很密切，部分創辦人重疊：韓國本地專業、區塊鏈技術（最大區塊鏈百科）、Frax 當穩定幣基礎設施夥伴。And then from there, we've just seen interesting opportunities. We work very closely with the Frax team. We actually share some of the founders there. So we had— both the local Korean expertise in that market, we had the blockchain technology expertise, having built the largest blockchain encyclopedia, plus we had Frax as the stablecoin infrastructure partner.

31:32這些加在一起，看到韓元機會；市場規模巨大且服務不足，韓元大部分交易在離岸，NDF 約每天 600 億美元，現貨再約 400 億。So all those ingredients together allowed us to see the opportunity in terms of the Korean won, and then in terms of the market size, it's a huge underserved market because the Korean won actually has most of its trading take place offshore, about $60 billion a day in the NDF market, and there's another about $40 billion in the spot market.

31:54韓元與日圓穩定幣

31:54規模很大，交易量很大，還不止傳統交易所；crypto 圈常看交易所量，韓元其實是 crypto 裡交易量第二大的法幣。So it's huge. There's huge trading volumes, and then that's even beyond the traditional exchange volume. Since a lot of people in crypto, they focus on the crypto exchange volume, which is huge. The Korean won is actually the second-most-traded fiat currency in all of crypto.

32:13crypto 和 FX 都是巨大市場。NK 請講。我是韓國人，在做日圓穩定幣，很有意思，非韓國的區塊鏈開發者在做韓元穩定幣。跟 SBI 提 JPY 前我們想很久為什麼日圓穩定幣要存在。So there's a huge market both in the crypto market and then as well in the FX market. Go ahead, NK. Yeah, I'm Korean, building a Japanese stablecoin. It's very interesting to have a fellow non-Korean blockchain developer building a Korean stablecoin. We actually thought a lot about why the yen stablecoin needs to exist before we started proposing this with SBI together.

32:36結論是各國、各貨幣在美國以外要有不同的使用情境和採用路徑。當時我們的回答，一是日圓在傳統金融長期當融資貨幣，利率環境下匯率又相對穩，JPY SC 可成鏈上融資貨幣，給 carry trade 用。And our conclusion was that each country and currency must have different use cases and different adoption pathways for their own stablecoin outside of the U. S. And our answer back then was, number one, as the Japanese yen has been playing the role of the funding currency in the traditional finance market, given the interest rate environment for a prolonged period of time, compared with the relatively stable FX of the JPY. We thought that JPY SC, our stablecoin, could become the on-chain funding currency for the carry trades.

33:06看 DeFi，融資幾乎只有 USD 穩定幣，USDC 或 USDT。依抵押品利率不同，多頭市場像現在，融資利率可到 6、7%，很可觀。If we look into the DeFi market currently, a lot of the funding happens only in the USD stablecoins, either USDC or USDT. Depending on the collateral, the rates differ, but then even in the blue-chip collateral in the bull market, it's interesting that I'm calling it a bull market now. Bull market like now, the rates go up, up to 6 to 7% for the funding rate, which is pretty significant.

33:29USD 穩定幣的資金方很難在己方找到好的融資來源。我們在日本 CEX 實驗，零售和機構對 JPY SC 在 CEX 借貸平台 2～3% 殖利率非常有興趣存入。It's very difficult for the financiers of those USD stablecoins to have a good source of the funding from their side. Whereas what we are currently experimenting in Japan in the centralized exchange platform, Japanese retail and institutions are massively showing a lot of interest to deposit at 2 to 3% of the yield for the JPY SC that we currently have for the CEX lending platform.

33:51監管批准 JPY SC 上鏈後，鏈上 DeFi 也能有類似融資利率。清楚的使用情境之一就是融資貨幣，跟傳統金融裡日圓的角色類似，在鏈上金融也一樣。And we think a similar funding rate could be achievable in the on-chain DeFi as well once we have regulatory approval to move JPY SC to the on-chain. So, number one clear use case is the funding currency, as it does in the traditional finance for the on-chain finance as well.

34:07日圓穩定幣的用途

34:07日圓會扮演角色。二是日本經濟特性。日本有大型綜合商社，百億美元級公司，全球累積資產，是商品和貨物最大交易商之一，亞洲進出口到中東、非洲、南非、南美。JPY will be taking a role. Number two, economic specifics about the Japan economy. For context, in Japan there are large commerce and trade companies locally called shosha. There are 100-billion-plus companies in Japan that have been historically accumulating a lot of assets globally, and they are one of the largest traders globally for commodities and also goods, importing and exporting in and out from Asia to countries like the Middle East, Africa, South Africa, and also South America as well.

34:37這些交易最後都要進出日本，資金移動反而是日本跟這些新興市場交易對手方的問題。例如商社要把南非本地收入匯回日本，可拖到 30 天，錢在哪都不知道。And all of these transactions eventually have to come in and out from Japan, and the money movement is actually the problem for these emerging markets that Japan trades as a counterparty with. For example, it takes, like, up to 30 days for a shosha to move their proceeds in the local currency from South Africa to move it back to Japan, and then they don't even know where the money is currently at.

34:59不知道是否遺失，只能依賴中間多家銀行。機會很大，不是觀光客進出那種，而是機構層級、要結算數十億美元商品和其他貨物貿易，對日本經濟很特定。長期金融機構管道，大型銀行和日資大型銀行做衍生和其他工具、日本國內支付，最終我們強烈相信會被穩定幣取代，因為透明、結算更快、They don't know if the money is lost or not. They just have to rely on the multiple banking partners in between. And we see massive opportunity here, not like the more tourist-centric in-and-out flow, but at the actual commerce trade level, institutional flow that needs to settle billions of dollars' worth of commodity trades, other goods trades, which is very interesting for the Japan economy specifically. Of course, on top of that, in the long term, for the financial institution rails, where bulge bracket banks and Japanese megabanks trade across the derivatives, other financial instruments, or Japanese domestic payment rails, of course, eventually, we have a strong vision that will be all replaced by the stablecoin, simply because of its transparency, faster settlement,

35:40成本更低。短期我們相信鏈上金融的 carry trade 有清楚的產品市場契合，同時給那些規模巨大的日本商社做匯款。請講。輪流。產業裡有人偏 crypto-native 使用情境，有人偏所謂實體經濟，兩邊都合理。cheaper cost. But even in the short term, we believe that there is clear product-market fit in the on-chain finance for the carry trade, and also at the same time for the remittance cases for those Japanese commerce companies whose size is massive. Go ahead. Okay, we're going in turn. So, I think you know, like in our industry, some people are more focused on, you know, crypto-native use cases. Some are more focused on, like, so-called real economy use cases, right? And both of them are legit.

36:11在座大概看法一致：金融服務、資金移動都可以變好。金融服務永遠有國內和跨境。And I think probably everyone in this room, we see the world in the same way, which is, you know, financial services can be changed for the better, and money movement can be changed for the better. And when it comes to financial services, there's always domestic and cross-border international, right?

36:29港幣穩定幣與本地支付

36:29現有系統的低效率在國內和跨境場景都有。以港幣穩定幣來說，我會說多數使用情境會在本地。但香港支付其實很有效率，對吧？And the inefficiency of our system right now lies also both in domestic use cases or domestic scenario and cross-border. So when it comes to, for example, a local... or a Hong Kong dollar stablecoin, I would say most of the use cases will lie in domestic use cases. But, you know, when it comes to payment in Hong Kong, for example, it's actually very efficient, right?

36:52香港的 RTGS、FPS 對港幣來說很快、即時、24/7，那不是要破解的使用情境。但本地還有其他情境，像本地基金或資產結算系統，一些港幣穩定幣發行方正在處理。The RTGS in Hong Kong, the FPS is actually, for Hong Kong dollar, very efficient, instant, 24/7. So that's not, that's not the... the use case to crack. But there's other use cases domestically, right? Like the local fund or asset settlement system, which I think some of the Hong Kong dollar stablecoin issuers are trying to tackle.

37:13例如基金結算走 CMU／Euroclear，大家在看能不能用穩定幣結算，會更有效率。這是港幣穩定幣。但談香港，就得談三種貨幣：美元、港幣、人民幣（CNY／CNH）。今天主題是非美元穩定幣，其實我們可能該談非美元代幣化貨幣。人民幣方面，大家都知道中國走 CBDC 路線。Like, for example, for fund settlement, which goes through the CMU slash Euroclear, where people are looking at, you know, like if we can use stablecoin to settle, it will be much, much more efficient. So that's for Hong Kong dollar stablecoin. But when we talk about Hong Kong, right, you have to talk about the three currencies there: U.S. dollar, Hong Kong dollar, and CNY, or CNH. So I think, you know, the topic today, non-U.S. dollar stablecoin, actually, we should probably talk about non-U.S. dollar tokenized money. So I think for CNY, everyone knows that, you know, China has taken the route of CBDC.

37:49e-CNY 已經有第二版，還有新系統 CBETS，可說是 CIPS 的 CBDC 版本，中國在推動，香港會是很適合推廣採用的地方。So e-CNY is, you know, there's a second sort of version of e-CNY, and there's a new system called CBETS, which is a CBDC version of CIPS, which they are driving, and Hong Kong would be a very good place to drive the adoption of that.

38:07我們密切關注。幾家中資銀行和渣打等是 CBETS 早期成員，會在不同走廊分發 e-CNY。我認為就代幣化貨幣的優勢而言，穩定幣和 CBDC 在不同走廊各有使用情境，代幣化存款反而是次要的。所以對世上兩個很重要的貨幣，美元I mean, we're closely watching that. There are a few banks, including a few Chinese banks and Standard Chartered, that are the early members of CBETS, which is basically going to distribute e-CNY through different corridors. I think that's super interesting because, in my view, the superiority in terms of tokenized money, I think stablecoin and CBDC have its own use cases in different corridors, and tokenized deposit is actually secondary. So I think actually for the two, maybe two very important currencies we see in the world, U.S. dollar

38:49美元、人民幣與香港

38:49和人民幣，走了不同路線，香港會是連接兩邊的地方，因為到頭來兩個世界需要匯流。對，香港／中國與世界其他地方結算，美元仍然很重要，仍是這些貿易最大的結算貨幣。and CNY, they have taken different routes, and Hong Kong would be the place to connect the two, because ultimately, I think the two worlds need to converge. Right, so that's also a very, very interesting angle for Hong Kong. And of course, you know, for settlement from Hong Kong slash China with the rest of the world, U.S. dollar is still very important. It's still the largest settlement currency for all this trade coming with Hong Kong.

39:20但我覺得在某些走廊，正如你可能已看到，人民幣正在取得動能，我們密切關注。你也知道，中國大陸不允許 crypto，所以一切都得經過香港。這是香港的使用情境，也是我們在做的。謝謝 Rita。天威，我想問稍微不同的問題，因為你同時有美元穩定幣和非美元穩定幣。But I think, I think for certain corridors, as you probably have seen, CNY is, you know, like gaining traction. So we're closely watching that. And as you know, crypto is not allowed in mainland China. So that means everything needs to go through Hong Kong. So that's a use case for Hong Kong, and that's what we're working on. Now, thanks, Rita. Now, for Tianwei, I want to ask a slightly different question because you have both a dollar stablecoin and a non-dollar stablecoin.

39:53你們兩邊都算成功。在什麼情況、使用情境下，大家會選 XSGD 而不是 XUSD？請多講大家怎麼想、怎麼在兩者之間選結算。好，謝謝這個問題。You have clearly had success on both. Under what circumstances, use cases, situations do people opt for XSGD versus XUSD? XSGD versus XUSD, right? Tell us a bit more about how people think about it, how people choose how to settle between those two. Sure, thanks for that.

40:09其實也落在你剛才問的大框架，對吧？首先還是要承認美元在世界貿易經濟裡仍然重要，多數貿易走廊仍以美元結算，還會留很久。但我們也要承認，貨幣關乎主權和貨幣政策，我們倡議這件事好幾年了。Actually, it's also on a bigger frame of what you just asked, right? I think first and foremost, we need to recognize the importance of the dollar still in the world trade economy, like it's still the settlement currency across most of the trading corridor globally itself. So it will be here to stay for quite a while. But we also have to recognize that, you know, if you think about currency, you think about sovereignty and monetary policy, we've been advocating this for multiple years.

40:36你很可能會看到，除非某經濟體貨幣很弱、乾脆用外幣，幾乎每個中等強國或像樣的金融中心都會有自己的 de facto 穩定幣或代幣化貨幣，或某種版本，因為從貨幣政策和主權來看，國內日常支付和定價用本地貨幣是合理的。You will see most likely, unless the economy itself doesn't have a very strong currency and they choose to use a foreign one, almost every middle power or every decent financial center will have its own de facto stablecoin or tokenized money, or some version of that, because it just makes sense from a monetary policy perspective, from the sovereignty perspective, that settlement or payments on the domestic side on a day-to-day basis should be priced in your local currency.

41:00主權與本地穩定幣

41:00對。新加坡是自由經濟，新幣很強，日常定價仍是新幣，對吧？但其他國家像印尼已立法，不能用非印尼盾買日常必需品，因為會影響貨幣政策控制。Right. In Singapore, for example, we are a pretty free economy, so that itself, because Sing dollar is very strong. But day-to-day things are still priced in Singapore dollars, right? But in other countries, like in Indonesia, it's become law, right? You cannot use a non-rupiah currency to purchase your daily necessities because that influences how the monetary policy is being controlled.

41:17延伸這個思路，若跨境從美元穩定幣獲益這麼大，每個主權國家都會需要思考自己貨幣的版本，以保護貨幣政策和主權。So if you extend that thought process, then it will make sense that if there's such a huge success coming from the benefits of cross-border use cases from stablecoin, or U. S. dollar stablecoin mostly, then there will be a need for every sovereign country to think about having their own version of their own currency, right, in order to protect their monetary policy and their sovereignty.

41:36但 model 會不會變成 CBDC、代幣化貨幣或代幣化存款，看各國政策。至少在新加坡，我們認為三者可並存，或 wholesale CBDC 未必對路，retail 也不是 MAS 給的方向。But whether that model will translate into whether it's a, you know, CBDC, tokenized money, or is it tokenized deposit itself, depends on how the policy approach of each country itself. And at least in Singapore, we do view that each of them, all three of them, can coexist, or more likely that, you know, CBDC itself might not be the right approach, at least from a wholesale perspective maybe, but from a retail perspective, that's not what MAS has given the direction is.

41:58再想我剛才說的，使用情境永遠是國內結算和支付。來新加坡，商品服務定價，從支付角度看 stablecoin 的真正好處。So then you think about what I just mentioned, and the use cases for that is always for domestic settlement and payments, right? So if you come to Singapore, for example, you want to make payments or pricing of goods and services, the real benefit of stablecoin, if you look at it from a payment perspective.

42:12 trading 另有使用情境我們理解，但我們多從支付和結算角度講。FX 的最終性（finality）是大家都在找的：用新幣定價，收到外幣付款，要確保換回同樣多的新幣。So I think there's use cases beyond that from a trading perspective, which we understand, but I think we can speak a bit more from a payment and settlement perspective. Finality in FX is actually what everyone is looking for, right? You want to be able to price a product in Sing dollars, and when you receive that payment in a foreign currency, you will be able to make sure that you get back that exact same Sing dollars.

42:32這是我們 10 年的本業，我們是 payment acquirer。談 Grab／Alipay 例子很經典：以前 Alipay 對 acquirer 某種 IOU，承諾金額，acquirer 幾天後才收到本地幣或美元，再結算新幣給商戶。That's a bread-and-butter business for us for the last 10 years. We are a payment acquirer, right? When I talk to you guys about the Grab/Alipay example, it's a classic one, right? Because when, in the past, the old model of how it works is that Alipay will have, in some sense, an IOU on the acquirer.

42:46那段延遲有匯率波動、流動性問題，反映在 MDR（merchant discount rate）裡。They will promise to pay this amount, and then the acquirer will then have to receive it in the local currency a few days later, or in dollars and cents a few days later, before we settle in Sing dollars back to our merchant itself.

42:57穩定幣的移動同時是通訊也是結算，但結算用什麼貨幣很重要。商戶定價 5 新幣，期望拿回 5 新幣扣 MDR。That delay has FX fluctuation. That delay has liquidity problems, which is where it's priced into the MDR, which is the merchant discount rate. Stablecoin, the movement of a stablecoin, is both a communication and a settlement. But the settlement in what currency matters, right? So if my merchant is pricing in five Sing dollars, they expect to get back five Sing dollars minus the MDR.

43:18支付結算的最終性

43:18所以我需要在價值轉移和外匯兩邊都達成真正的最終性。價值轉移和外匯都要。So then I need the actual finality to be achieved in both the value transfer and the FX. achieved in both the value transfer and the FX side of this thing. And this is where the Singapore dollar stablecoin or any other domestic stablecoin in this kind of use cases is a perfect fit, right?

43:30若當下付 USDC，仍不知商戶轉回法幣本地幣的確切匯率，因為商戶要拿回法幣、本地貨幣。新幣穩定幣做得到。港幣穩定幣同理，很多這類國內支付。對，謝謝。Because if I pay you USDC at that moment, I still do not know what exactly is the FX that my merchant needs to convert back to, because my merchant wants to get it back in fiat, in their local currency. A Singapore dollar stablecoin achieves that. So the same thing goes into a Hong Kong dollar stablecoin for a lot of this kind of domestic payment use cases itself. Yeah, thanks a lot.

43:48這照亮了 payment 使用情境的思考。我想轉回 trading：很多東西靠流動性，Navin 和 NK，cold start 怎麼解，尤其相對新的東西？I think that sheds a lot of light into how they think about it from the payment use case. Now I want to shift back to the trading use case. When you think about trading, a lot of things live and die by liquidity, right? So for Navin and NK, I want you guys to— share with us, how are you thinking about solving that liquidity cold start problem, especially when you're launching something that's relatively new?

44:08對，這肯定是挑戰之一，也是為什麼非 USD 穩定幣沒像 USD 穩定幣那樣起來，USD 穩定幣甚至在監管框架出來前就能造出巨大流動性，GENIUS Act 去年才過。有幾種方式看 cold start、拉需求：一是看現有玩家Yeah, absolutely. This is one of the definite challenges. This is actually, I would say, why we haven't seen non-USD stablecoins take over the same way that USD stablecoins have, because USD stablecoins were able to even create huge liquidity even before the regulatory framework was there, right? GENIUS Act was only just passed, you know, last year, right? So that's definitely one of the big challenges. There's a couple different ways that we look at, you know, cold start, getting the demand going. One of them is looking at the existing players

44:40問我們怎麼服務他們更好。就是我講的 NDF 市場，鎖定 institutional 交易員、大型基金，給更好體驗、更低費用、更好定價。and saying, how can we serve them better? So that was what I was discussing in terms of the NDF market and targeting those institutional traders, those huge funds that are traders, and, you know, delivering a better experience for them, lower fees, lower pricing.

44:57但對零售和一般交易員更 exciting 的，可能是把韓股和債券帶給全球投資人。Ondo、Robinhood Chain 在 tokenized equities 上很火，成長很大，我不認為只會發生在美國。韓國有很多世界級公司像 SK hynix、Samsung，能透過 ADR 等在全球融資，但But I think what might be more exciting to retail and more general traders is the ability to bring Korean equities and debt to the global audience. I think that's one of the most exciting use cases. Ondo, Robinhood Chain have been lighting everything up in terms of tokenized equities. We're seeing huge growth there. I don't think that's just going to happen only in the U.S. There's— so many great companies around the world that are looking to raise financing, like in Korea, you've got tons of world-beaters and innovators in terms of SK hynix and Samsung at the very large scale, and they're able to raise capital globally through ADRs and things like that.

45:37流動性冷啟動

45:37挑戰是給全球投資人曝險，很複雜。great use case 之一是把韓股跟 KRWQ 這類韓元穩定幣配對，就像大家用美元穩定幣配 Nvidia、SpaceX 等 tokenized 股票。But the challenge is to give global investors exposure. It's very complex. So I think one of the great use cases is going to be pairing these Korean equities with a Korean won stablecoin such as KRWQ, the same way that people are now pairing Nvidia tokenized equities and SpaceX and exciting companies like that.

45:56他們配美元穩定幣，KRWQ 之所以 essential，是若市場要整合，中間需要連結，KRWQ 和韓元都要有流動性，人才能轉換、套利，才真的有用，對吧？They're pairing it with U.S. dollar stablecoins, and the reason why KRWQ is essential for that is because if you want these markets to integrate, you're going to need a connection there, right? You're going to need liquidity both in KRWQ and in Korean won so people can transition in between, so people can arb that so that it's actually useful, right?

46:14memecoin 配美元也許可以，韓股 memecoin 也行，但要真正接上傳統金融、韓股數兆美元市值，就得配同一種資產。Because, you know, maybe for a memecoin, it's fine if it's paired with the U.S. dollar, like if it's a stock memecoin in Korean stock, but for it to actually tap into the existing traditional finance and the existing, you know, trillions of dollars of market cap that's in the Korean stock market, you're going to need it to be paired with the same asset.

46:34這是我們 scale KRWQ 很看重的一個使用情境。對，我們也看到傳統金融和 crypto 做市商／流動性提供者 interesting 的匯流，而且是雙向。So that's one of the use cases we're really looking at in terms of scaling KRWQ. Yes, we are observing very interesting convergence in terms of the market maker and liquidity provider from the traditional finance side and to the crypto side, and it's actually both ways around.

46:49兩三年前跟 crypto 做市商談，他們只談 altcoin market making，借貸後在 DEX 提供流動性。最近跟做市商開會，都在談怎麼做 FX、怎麼做 RWA，那才是他們現在的本業。Only two or three years ago, when you were talking with the market makers in the crypto space, they were only talking about altcoin market making. They take the loan and then they provide the market liquidity in decentralized exchange venues for the cryptocurrencies. When I have a meeting with the market makers lately, all of them are talking about how do they trade FX, how do they trade real-world assets, and that's actually where they are now bread-and-butter businesses.

47:13很多 crypto-native 做市商匯入 FX，當然含穩定幣，都對 JPY 穩定幣做市、交易很有興趣。另一邊，傳統金融做市商，從美國到日本 SBI 等，用既有傳統市場流動性進 crypto，對我們更有意思，因為資本規模跟 crypto-native 機構差很多。So a lot of the crypto-native market makers are converging into the FX space, of course including the stablecoin, all of whom are showing very much interest in making markets and trading in the JPY stablecoin as one avenue. Another thing is we are seeing the convergence from the other way around. Those traditional finance market makers, the reputable names all over the world, starting from the U.S., but also SBI is another name in Japan that is converging into crypto using their existing traditional market liquidity, which is a lot more interesting for us because the capital size is very different from the crypto-native institutions.

47:48傳統與加密做市收斂

47:48參考一下，SBI 有全球最大的 USD/JPY FX 經紀平台之一，每天交易 200～300 億 USD/JPY，也是最大交易通道之一，含大型銀行間機構場。我們正在想怎麼把這流動性匯入鏈上金融，SBI 不只有傳統金融牌照，還有 crypto 做市子公司 B2C2。For the reference, SBI has one of the largest FX brokerage platforms globally for the USD/JPY. They trade 20 to 30 billion USD/JPY per day. It's actually the largest trade avenue. Also including inter-institution venues for the bulge bracket banks as well. And we are now working on a way how we converge that liquidity into the on-chain finance, because SBI owns not only the traditional finance license, but also they have a market-maker group company for the cryptocurrency assets called B2C2.

48:19這種匯流對我們很有意思，流動性問題？我們認為監管和支付鐵路到位後，在 institutional 規模上相對好解。So this kind of convergence is very interesting for us, and also at the same time, how do we look into the liquidity problem? We think this is easily solvable at the institutional scale once the regulation is there and also the payment railways are there.

48:33回到支付面，監管和監管機關看法很關鍵。天威、Rita，跟監管機關密切合作這幾年學到什麼？成長過程裡有哪些非顯而易見的事？Now, moving back to the payment side, I think a very key part is regulations and regulators' view on this, right? I'm curious from both Tianwei and Rita, what are some of the lessons you have learned working with the regulators hand in hand over the past few years?

48:49新加坡有幸也有不幸，監管機關是全球知名嚴格、也很聰明地處理議題。我們很幸運監管很前瞻，過去五年密切合作，討論風險和產業可改進之處。What are the non-obvious things that people may or may not realize as you sort of think about the growth process with the regulators, right, in this sort of very new area? Sure. Fortunately or unfortunately at the same time, Singapore has one of the leading regulators that I think has the world-renowned reputation of being very strict, and also very smart about how things are being approached here.

49:14從監管怎麼想，起點是穩定幣治理，儲備怎麼背書，這是跟 MAS 多年合作，但框架大致定了：必須是同貨幣的高品質流動資產。So we've been very, you know, fortunate in that sense that, you know, the regulators are pretty forward-looking. We have been working very, very closely over the last five years itself since we started this whole project about what are the risks and then the improvement that can be done in the industry.

49:29不能有 FX 風險，到期日少於 90 天。到目前新幣角度，我們談的是政府公債。你無法控制誰送來一筆交易、實際怎麼發生，所以做法要重新看、用風險為本來控。I think, from the point of view of how regulators think about it, the starting point here is then about, you know, the governance of this whole stablecoin, right? What is the reserve that's backing this itself? This itself is a multi- years collaboration with MAS, but I think we have more or less come down with a framework here that you have to be, you know, high-quality liquid assets of the same currency.

49:50我們再次幸運 MAS 看法一致，一起控制最有 sense 的使用情境。There will not be FX risk, with less than 90-day maturity itself. And so far, from a Singapore dollar perspective, we're just talking about treasury bills coming from the government. You cannot control, like, that someone is sending you a transaction and how things actually happen. So the approach on this needs to be relooked at and then be risk-based to actually control it. So we've been very fortunate again that MAS actually took the same view and how we actually come together to try and control the use cases that make the most sense.

50:19與監管機關協作

50:19從風險輪廓和痛點兩個光譜看，跨境旅客 inbound 或小額消費在風險和痛點上都最合理，對吧？If you look at it from a risk profile perspective and a pain point perspective, which is like two spectra I always talk about. Again, cross-border tourists inbound or small purchases are the ones that make the most sense from a risk profile perspective and also from a pain point perspective, right?

50:33他們大概風險最低。我們常開玩笑，就算罪犯來新加坡，我們有人權，他可以買食物和服務，那其實 okay，我們允許跨境 QR 掃碼支付運作。資金移轉有控制，用途是已知商戶、一定金額內的 goods and services。That they are probably the lowest risk. You know, we always say that, as a joke, even if like a criminal comes to Singapore, we have human rights here. They can buy food and services. That's actually okay, right? They can buy food and services, which is what we actually allow the cross-border QR codes, scan and pay, to work, right? There are certain controls in terms of what kind of services for the fund transfer. You know, we know the purpose in this case: purchasing of goods and services under a certain denomination with known merchants.

50:57那其實誰都可以做。現有跨境支付法規已有豁免和規則允許這類交易。這種做法讓我們 incremental 展示另一邊光譜的好處。Then it's actually okay that anybody can actually do that. So actually, the existing regulation for cross-border payment already has the kind of exemption and rules allowing this kind of transaction. So that kind of approach will allow us to take incremental steps to actually showcase the benefits of that, which is on the other spectrum, right?

51:13承擔額外風險時，好處是什麼？跨境支付可即時、T+0 結算、成本更低。兩者要並行，這是我們跟新加坡政府、MAS 公私協作的方式：怎麼推進邊界又控住大部分風險。When you take on additional risk here, what is the benefit here? Now you allow cross-border payments to be done on an instantaneous basis, settlement on a— T+0 basis at a lower cost. So these two have to be hand in hand, and that's actually the approach that we've been working as a public-private relationship with the government in Singapore, and MAS itself, is how can we push the boundary while keeping most part of the risk under control itself.

51:35對。香港方面，先講香港，再講全球。監管和傳統金融都看到 tokenization、代幣化貨幣的價值，所以大家都在做。老實說，全球監管跟我們一樣還在摸索：使用情境、採用，以及怎麼治理又不扼殺創新。Yeah. Yeah. So in Hong Kong, I think, first of all, let me talk about Hong Kong, and I think... Generally in the world, I think regulators and traditional finance, they see the value of tokenization, they see the value of tokenized money. That's why everyone is actually actively working on it. But to be honest, I think regulators around the world are still, just like probably all of us, right, like, figuring it out in certain ways.

52:00香港 SFC 有各種牌照給 stablecoin 入金／出金、託管，託管牌照也在研議，還有 stablecoin 發行。Use cases and adoption and all that, and what's the best way to govern it without stifling it, right? So I think, so in Hong Kong, for example, you know, on the SFC side, there are, like, various licenses available for... you know, stablecoin on-/off-ramping and custody. There are custody licenses just being worked on, and stablecoin issuance.

52:29牌照與新興市場

52:29但支付面，香港還需要另一種牌照，要組合不同牌照才能用 stablecoin 做跨境支付。RD 在這方面牌照齊全，可在香港做 stablecoin 支付和入金／出金。But, you know, on the payment front, there is another license that's in Hong Kong that you need to basically combine different licenses to support cross-border payment using stablecoin, which, of course, you know, at RD, we are fully licensed there to do stablecoin payments and on-/off-ramping in Hong Kong.

52:51我們很聚焦新興市場，最近去非洲，很有意思，那邊監管對 stablecoin 或任何代幣化貨幣非常開放，對他們是新方式 leapfrog，I think, you know, just compared to, you know, like, because we're very focused on emerging market, I recently went to Africa. I think it's very interesting how the regulators there are very, very open to the idea of stablecoin or any type of tokenized money, because for them it's like a new way to leapfrog, right?

53:13每次新技術他們都當機會跳過傳統做法。當然有挑戰，本地貨幣穩定等。但多數非洲監管我們談過，更聚焦跨境。Because every time there's a new technology, I think they see it as an opportunity to leapfrog the— the, you know, the traditional way of doing things. Of course, you know, they have their challenges, right? Like their currency, the stability of their local currencies. But I think for most of the African regulators we talked to, they are more focused on the cross-border bit.

53:37如天威說，最終每個政府可能都要本地 stablecoin 版本。但現在他們更問：能不能降低對 SWIFT 等傳統系統的依賴？I think, you know, like Tianwei said, maybe ultimately. Every government will want their version of their local currency stablecoin. But at the moment, I think the regulators we talked to in Africa, they're more focused on the cross-border bit: is there a way they can decrease their reliance on the traditional system like SWIFT?

54:00非洲代理銀行關係很缺乏，所以他們對 stablecoin 很開放，也在做不同牌照。我的重點是，中心化、受監管的 stablecoin，儲備背書大家大致懂了，受監管、資金隔離、100% 背書，沒問題。Because, you know, the correspondent banking relationship in Africa is just very lacking. So they are very open to the idea of a stablecoin and, you know, also are working on different licenses. I guess, you know, my point is, I think generally, I think when it comes to stablecoin.

54:20監管還在意的仍是 AML 這類風險。香港、新加坡這種金融樞紐，監管非常謹慎，因為關乎地方聲譽。If it's a centralized stablecoin regulated by the regulator, I think the reserve backing and all that, everyone has sort of wrapped their head around it. If it's regulated, the money is segregated, 100% backed, not a problem, right? I think the area... of concern for regulators, it still goes back to AML, that kind of risk. And I think for financial hubs like Hong Kong and Singapore, the regulators are very, very cautious about that because it's very much about the reputation of the place.

54:58反洗錢與一年後願景

54:58AML 是 stablecoin 或代幣化貨幣的一大關切。很好，快時間了。最後請每位用一句話：一年後再聚在這裡，你希望非美元穩定幣版圖看到什麼？一句就好，誰先開始都可以。So I think AML is a big area of concern for regulators when it comes to stablecoin or tokenized money. Excellent. So we're almost at time. The final ask I have for each of my panelists is in one sentence. Let's say we gather back here exactly in a year's time, right? In one sentence, what do you hope to see in the non-USD stablecoin landscape? It can be related to whatever you guys are building. It can be in general, but let's say we are right here on this stage 12 months from now, what do you want to see?

55:30KRWQ 我盡量一句：要拿下 NDF 市場有意義的占比，那是每天 600 億美元。也要在 stablecoin 市場拿下有意義份額，把韓元帶成主要 stablecoin，例如像美元Just one line. Any of you can go first, as and when. For KRWQ, I'll try to keep it to one sentence, but definitely we want to take a meaningful percentage of the NDF market, so that's $60 billion a day. We want to take a meaningful share of the stablecoin market in the sense of bringing the Korean won into a major stablecoin, taking, for example, like 1% of the money supply the same way that U.S.

55:56stablecoin 占 M2 約 1%。美國約 2000 億，韓國 M2 約 2 兆，我們想衝 200 億市值。最後，tokenized 股票、證券，把全球資金帶進韓國投資韓企、助其成長。stablecoins have taken 1% of that M2 money supply. So U.S. is around 200 billion. So with Korea at 2 trillion, we want to hit, you know, that 20 billion mark, hit that in terms of market cap. And then last but not least, bringing on tokenized equities, tokenized securities, bringing global money into Korea, investing in Korean companies and helping them grow.

56:20未來兩年監管放行，把 stablecoin 從 consumer crypto 產品變成傳統金融機構可用的 institutional 結算產品，規模會是我們現在談的無可比。Regulatory clearance in upcoming two years to bring stablecoin from a consumer crypto product to the institutional product that traditional finance institutions can use for their settlement cases that is unmatchable with the scale that we're currently talking about. I hope to see more convergence of traditional or real economy with stablecoin or tokenized money from both sort of a user point of view.

56:52希望看到傳統／實體經濟跟 stablecoin 或代幣化貨幣更多匯流，從使用者角度。我始終相信幾年後企業（不只零售）帳上持有 stablecoin 會成常態，越來越多銀行資產負債表也會持有 stablecoin。I always believe, I think in a few years' time, it will be a norm for corporates. Not just retail, for corporates to hold stablecoin on their account. And I also think in a few years' time, there will be more and more banks holding stablecoin on their balance sheet.

57:09結語

57:09我同意 Rita 說的。從支付角度，成功是我們不再談技術，只談支付。我們 DNA 是支付公司，這是手段不是目的。我是工程師，這只是技術；很多應用、真實使用情境，技術退到幕後時就成功了。Yeah, I second what Rita is saying. I think the success in this case, at least we come from a payment perspective here, is that we stop talking about the technology itself and just talk about payments. Because ultimately, when we started, because maybe we're biased, we're a payment company by DNA, right? And ultimately, this is a means to an end. I'm an engineer, right? It's just a technology. Like, what we have seen, a lot of applications, a lot of real-world use cases, when the technology disappears behind the scene.

57:33Alipay 和 Grab 掃碼支付，使用者不知道 stablecoin 參與其中；全球 stablecoin 卡也是。對使用者就是日常支付。當整件事退到幕後、我們回來只談支付、怎麼做更多，那就是很好的成功指標。Like Alipay and Grab Scan and Pay, the user does not know that stablecoin is being involved, and the stablecoin card stuff that's going on right now. Globally, it's the same idea. To the user itself, this is just a day-to-day payment. I think that will be a very good factor of success when this whole thing disappears behind the scene and we come back to just talk of this as payment and how can we do more.

57:54對。很好。請大家跟我一起給與談人熱烈掌聲。謝謝。Yeah. Excellent. Now, will you join me to give our panelists a warm round of applause? Thank you.